Protect Peckham's Future: art deco, cultural economy, & more

[richard tudor]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> If you want a boring predictable safe sterilised

> high st try Lordship Lane, how can you have wasted

> a whole life shopping in a 'shithole' when what

> you were looking for is a mile away ?! lol

I thought we were talking about the space around the station? And the improvement

Perhaps you have a different perception of area.

For your information the only interest for me in LL are the diy shops.

[fortified]

It's only latterly that LL has achieved oh-so-covetable boring predictable safe sterilised status. It was perfectly acceptable ten or so years ago.

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you want a boring predictable safe sterilised

> high st try Lordship Lane, how can you have wasted

> a whole life shopping in a 'shithole' when what

> you were looking for is a mile away ?! lol

[KidKruger]

Fortified - I agree completely.

I was kist trying to make a point with the ethnic-cleansing-by-stealth'ers.

[keekybreeks]

glad you brought up the cleansing term KK, I would have been pounced upon by the peckham illuminati if I had tried it

[Quintessential]

Do we really want to create the same situation as Paris? A museum piece in the centre of the city, surrounded by perfectly preserved inner suburbs with wealthy families distorting the image of a diverse colourful population. Ethnic communities clustering around isolated outer suburbs hidden from national view and prevented from contributing to society. I have always love london because it is not that, it is a healthy mixture throughout the inner city. With social cleansing brought about in this way we will see inner london become a new paris. Very sad.

[Nigello]

It's perfectly possible - and desirable - to preserve what's good as well as giving the area a good scrub. It is grubby (in parts) and to defend it in the name of "diversity" is to patronise and condescend. The area around the station is dark, dank and not worthy of the the ill-thought defence some people feel duty bound to offer.

It's true that lots of people shop there, but perhaps they don't have the time or money to travel further afield and might themselves want the grot-spots to be cleaned up.

And, just as a thought, why shouldn't things change? Areas change all the time, usually over the period of a generation, and it's inevitable that some will like it and some won't. Why should the current status-quo be pickled in aspic? That has never been the case for various parts of London at various times, so why should SE15 be special?

[KidKruger]

Missing the point completely.

Who works / shops the area in question on a day-by-day basis ?

Who wants to 'clean it up' ?

[fortified]

I realise we are in agreement, KK.

I tend to think it's social rather than ethnic cleansing, though; what might be considered aspects of white working-class life don't seem to fare too well either. All social classes have become more ethnically diverse, yet the affluent still give the less affluent a wide berth given a choice. Not sure I'm comfortable with using cleansing to describe this though, not least because of what it means in world history terms, but also because there's no conscious intent, it's mainly the outcome of lots of small choices at the individual level.

And I have to say, having mulled it over, I think dismissing the area as a 'shithole' is actually pretty f*cking rude to the people who live and work there.

[fortified]

Fuck me, I can swear on Mumsnet but not on the EDF?

Profanity filter. LOL.

[KidKruger]

Social / ethnic - probably a mixture of the two, which will only be accurately measurable once it's been achieved.

[mynamehere]

I'll wade into this. I'll start by a broad brush everyone wants to fix and clean and the council's prime imperative is to build housing. But how to is reflected in the immediate vitriol of just 10 posts above.

ISIS has a fixed point in time we all have to conform to or die brutal deaths. We don't live that way. But cleaning and fixing a high street is complex and expensive. Peckham Vision has tried to find a balanced, well, vision. Peckham (and the whole of London)is a place with existing examples of built history covering at least 400 years.

Highlights of Art Deco, The Train Station and its extraordinary Waiting Room, examples of Industry and trains lines beg us to reclaim them as rebuilt and refurbished use or as new use by turning elevated train track into a skyline garden walk (cheaper and better and for everyone everyday use not the special interest public money garden bridge boondoggle).

And the sky line and sight lines from the centre of Peckham: Don't Build 30 story concrete rectangles on Morrison's Parking Lot and on the Canal Path

Come to the next Co-Design (which exists only because of Peckham's Vision).

Making History in real time with everyone included is very very complex that's why politicians rarely do it and the worst of them just exploit hate and fear and prejudice to simplistic cement the world over and exploit resources for the short term.

16th April 18:30 Peckham Co-Design All Saints Church Hall and you'll see what's happening. Knowledge does have the remarkable effect of knocking the wind out of sails and people riding high on horses to the ground (or tilting at windmills or expounding and pontificating from their armchairs)

[healey]

I have to say, having looked at the Peckham Vision site, that they seem like they'd be an absolute nightmare to work with. Various demands to protect this piece of art-deco, that view, this arch, all backed up by some ill-defined, anti-capitalist concept of utopia in which everything will be better despite the fact that nothing will be allowed to change.

I'm all for preserving history, but the way to do that is to focus one's efforts whilst allowing some room for the future.

[keekybreeks]

mynamehere Wrote:

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> I'll wade into this. I'll start by a broad brush

> everyone wants to fix and clean and the council's

> prime imperative is to build housing. But how to

> is reflected in the immediate vitriol of just 10

> posts above.

>

> ISIS has a fixed point in time we all have to

> conform to or die brutal deaths. We don't live

> that way. But cleaning and fixing a high street is

> complex and expensive. Peckham Vision has tried

> to find a balanced, well, vision. Peckham (and

> the whole of London)is a place with existing

> examples of built history covering at least 400

> years.

>

> Highlights of Art Deco, The Train Station and its

> extraordinary Waiting Room, examples of Industry

> and trains lines beg us to reclaim them as rebuilt

> and refurbished use or as new use by turning

> elevated train track into a skyline garden walk

> (cheaper and better and for everyone everyday use

> not the special interest public money garden

> bridge boondoggle).

>

> And the sky line and sight lines from the centre

> of Peckham: Don't Build 30 story concrete

> rectangles on Morrison's Parking Lot and on the

> Canal Path

>

> Come to the next Co-Design (which exists only

> because of Peckham's Vision).

>

> Making History in real time with everyone included

> is very very complex that's why politicians rarely

> do it and the worst of them just exploit hate and

> fear and prejudice to simplistic cement the world

> over and exploit resources for the short term.

>

> 16th April 18:30 Peckham Co-Design All Saints

> Church Hall and you'll see what's happening.

> Knowledge does have the remarkable effect of

> knocking the wind out of sails and people riding

> high on horses to the ground (or tilting at

> windmills or expounding and pontificating from

> their armchairs)

I am labouring a point here but will phrase it as a question to keep it polite - How representative of Peckham demografics do your think such a meeting will be?

a) not very

b) very very

[titch juicy]

keekybreeks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> mynamehere Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'll wade into this. I'll start by a broad

> brush

> > everyone wants to fix and clean and the

> council's

> > prime imperative is to build housing. But how

> to

> > is reflected in the immediate vitriol of just

> 10

> > posts above.

> >

> > ISIS has a fixed point in time we all have to

> > conform to or die brutal deaths. We don't live

> > that way. But cleaning and fixing a high street

> is

> > complex and expensive. Peckham Vision has

> tried

> > to find a balanced, well, vision. Peckham (and

> > the whole of London)is a place with existing

> > examples of built history covering at least 400

> > years.

> >

> > Highlights of Art Deco, The Train Station and

> its

> > extraordinary Waiting Room, examples of

> Industry

> > and trains lines beg us to reclaim them as

> rebuilt

> > and refurbished use or as new use by turning

> > elevated train track into a skyline garden walk

> > (cheaper and better and for everyone everyday

> use

> > not the special interest public money garden

> > bridge boondoggle).

> >

> > And the sky line and sight lines from the

> centre

> > of Peckham: Don't Build 30 story concrete

> > rectangles on Morrison's Parking Lot and on the

> > Canal Path

> >

> > Come to the next Co-Design (which exists only

> > because of Peckham's Vision).

> >

> > Making History in real time with everyone

> included

> > is very very complex that's why politicians

> rarely

> > do it and the worst of them just exploit hate

> and

> > fear and prejudice to simplistic cement the

> world

> > over and exploit resources for the short term.

> >

> > 16th April 18:30 Peckham Co-Design All Saints

> > Church Hall and you'll see what's happening.

> > Knowledge does have the remarkable effect of

> > knocking the wind out of sails and people

> riding

> > high on horses to the ground (or tilting at

> > windmills or expounding and pontificating from

> > their armchairs)

>

>

> I am labouring a point here but will phrase it as

> a question to keep it polite - How representative

> of Peckham demografics do your think such a

> meeting will be?

>

>

> a) not very

> b) very very

Surely the point is though that anyone can attend that wants to and therefore show support/raise objections

I'm sure the EDF isn't the only place that this meeting is being advertised

[keekybreeks]

yes, but who will actuially turn up and get involved - realistically ?

[titch juicy]

But if people have the opportunity to and don't then it seems a bit churlish to moan about any decisions after the event

[keekybreeks]

Like most groupings of this ilk, a vocal, savvy educated, white middle class will articulate their views and their aims in a space they are familair with, where they can be most easily heard and most easily push their patronising views.

I ask again, who will turn up to this kind of meeting and get involved - and further ask - why is this so ?

[keekybreeks]

BTW, I am not doing this to troll, just to nip in the bud any response that is looming.

[Louisa]

.

[Louisa]

.

[keekybreeks]

i am going to retire from this thread. good luck with the new cultural economy.

[titch juicy]

keekybreeks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like most groupings of this ilk, a vocal, savvy

> educated, white middle class will articulate their

> views and their aims in a space they are familair

> with, where they can be most easily heard and most

> easily push their patronising views.

>

>

> I ask again, who will turn up to this kind of

> meeting and get involved - and further ask - why

> is this so ?

What's a better, more inclusive way of going about it?

[Otta]

keekybreeks Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Like most groupings of this ilk, a vocal, savvy

> educated, white middle class will articulate their

> views and their aims in a space they are familair

> with, where they can be most easily heard and most

> easily push their patronising views.

>

>

> I ask again, who will turn up to this kind of

> meeting and get involved - and further ask - why

> is this so ?

I totally agree with keekybreeks on this. I am not saying that any plans are bad (I don't really have an opinion), but it's a white middle class group trying to build a new Peckham in their own image.

[edhistory]

spider69 Wrote:

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>

> The concrete mass should be pulled down. Dark and

> very depressing.

>

Concrete?

John K

[alice]

you are right kb - been to a couple of the meetings -