East Dulwich - a new phase?

[SeanMacGabhann]

There was a fair bit of activity in ED about 5 years ago in the bar/restuarant scene with lot of refurbs taking place and new (however useful or useless) shops opening up. I would say that the area at that point took on a new flavour.

Then it went relatively quiet again (give or take the odd G&B style addition) but with a number of premises undergoing some major-league refurbs at the moment it definitely feels like something is in the air

Not saying it's a bad thing at all - keeps it all interesting and gives us plenty to goss about - but just wondered if anyone else felt this feels like a "shift" and not just a couple of shops undergoing a facelift

[Nero]

I do, and I think it might be a turn for the worse. Not wanting to rehash previous arguments, but if we get a Tesco and a White Stuff etc. there will be a bit of a shift. It is tangible. But it is good to see Sema Thai and Karavan etc. having makeovers. Nero

[SeanMacGabhann]

I went through a phase where I thought it may not be a turn for the better but I think those of use who favour the indie over corporate outfit sometimes worry too much. Having lived in Swindon and visited friends in places like Croydon it's obvious what we don't want ED to become

But, as I've said to some people before, LL does remind me of Eccleshall Rd in Sheffield - and that is an area that has had stores such as White Stuff for years but has still maintained it's character and indie shops the whole time. I think it's a model that can easily work if the balance doesn't tip over

[Nero]

I was searching for a good comparison, and Eccleshall Rd hits the nail on the head. I am still scratching my head as to what we could do with, apart from an Italian or Vietnamese restaurant. Perhaps we should all be satisfied with our lot? Nero

[SeanMacGabhann]

That's one for the "What ED needs thread." methinks Nero

But it IS interesting to see so much activity behind whitewashed windows!

[beatnic]

People are moving here to start families from Islington and Chelsea.

People who've lived here since just after the second world war are either dying or selling up and moving out to live with and be looked after by family, usually elsewhere.

House prices are such that those lucky enough to have stepped on to the ladder and want to get a bigger place in East Dulwich will find it increasingly hard to do so.

Quite a few people with growing numbers of children will either need to build up (if East Dulwich was a house it would be having its loft converted) or move out, in turn making way for more folk to move in from Islington and Chelsea.

So local trade will have to adapt to serve this new wave, otherwise the new folk are likely to stick with what they know (i.e. White Stuff et al).

I agree with SeanMacGabhann. The model can work.

Wimbledon Village is a good example of where the model hasn't worked.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Funny you mention Wimbledon village Beatnic - I happened to be there last night for first time in years and was struck by how homogenised it was -

One of the reasons ED is what it is (as opposed to the Dulwich Village say) is the mix of people ie really diverse. Let's hope most people find a way to stay

[Keef]

I agree with Sean, in that there is room for chains and indies..... And I personally like to see both. Indies give you nice stuff you can't get everywhere, chains give you the everyday stuff you need at cheaper prices....

Aaanyway, not really the topic but there you go.

[citizenED]

Let's hope so, Sean. It's great living in a place that is so diverse. If people keep on patronising the shops on LL i guess there is no reason why it shouldn't maintain it's character. Isn't this the "stable state" theory? There would need to be a lot of pressure from a good number of chain stores it order to knock LL from its current mix. We got our Caffe Nero but it has not led to others opening up in quick succession and it hasn't affected trade at the local cafe's - the guy at Mon Petit Chou reckons its been good for his trade.

Citizen

[SeanMacGabhann]

"Who's a good little shop eh? Aren't you doing well on Lordship Lane, yes you are, yes you ARE"

Oh hang on - you didn't mean that kind of patronising right?

[citizenED]

right, but think that next time i go into any of the estate agents i'll try your kind for a laugh. ("when i grow up i really do want to be an estate agent"(sic)

[Mark]

East Dulwich isn't just about shops and restaurants, I think there's a great sense of community here which is developing for the better.

[AnotherPaul]

There is a change happening, I can see it and have only been here three years. Myself and lady Paul have just had to choose between buying a flat here or a house elsewhere and plumped for the former, we like ED too much to leave (tears of joy etc). In part we decided to stay as it feels like the area is likely to retain it's character. Of course the influx of the seriously well off will have an impact but that need not be a negative.

LL is well protected from a corporate invasion by the retail properties being mainly quite small and therefore not much use to chains who require large floorspace to shift lots of products. It's a shame about whitestuff, personally I dislike what they stock, but that's just one store amongst a majority of independents.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Mark - you are of course right but the shop fronts (and activities therin) are a very visible manifestation of that community, hence the reason for starting this thread

Having lived in some non-communities in other parts of London I knew as soon as I arrived here years ago that it was special

[Nero]

Where I live, in the Upper East Side there is less 'gentrification'. There are quite a few houses that are like something from the 70s, and I feel that it will take a long long time before all of the area becomes Claphamised. There is a sense of community and it feels more 'normal' than house after house of similarly zhooj'd houses. Nero

[SeanMacGabhann]

Nero

I too am up in that neck of the woods - and know the houses you mean. The chuck out the chintz campaign has not yet penetrated many of these places - but we still have to walk further than The Plough for a bevvy

[Tom]

I think there is something postive in the air, despite some persitant grumblers on the forum who I sometimes wish would cash in and move on.

(tu)

Agree with the plough end though. Hopefully the investments will move up there as some of the units need some TLC - and the pub is a dump.

[Muttley]

I agree that there seems to be a new surge of regeneration at the moment. On the whole, it feels good, though in the back of my mind is a fear not so much of what kind of stores might move in, but what stores we might one day lose and never get back. If Dulwich DIY or A J Farmer were ever priced out by higher rents, I think it's unlikely they'd ever be replaced by a shop of their ilk. And that would be a sad day for East Dulwich culture.

[Huguenot]

hear hear

[TJS]

For those giving the plough a hard time (rightfully though), i noticed they have a lot of planning request in the pipeline, not much but a start:

07-AP-0834 R:12/04/2007 : THE PLOUGH PH 381 LORDSHIP LANE, LONDON, SOUTHWARK, SE22 8JJ Installation of 4 signs: hanging post sign, externally lit mural to side elevation, ground floor letters, and first floor letters (both illuminated)

07-AP-0835 R:12/04/2007 : THE PLOUGH, 381 LORDSHIP LANE, LONDON, SOUTHWARK, SE22 8JJ Erection of a new pergola to garden

07-AP-0824 R:11/04/2007 : THE PLOUGH CAFE, 351 LORDSHIP LANE, LONDON, SE22 8JJ New external decking seating area to cafe frontage.

Also as i mentioned on the other thread most of the empty shops on LL & GG roundadbout are under offer, so fingers crossed these will turn out to really add to ED.

[SeanMacGabhann]

TJS

Interesting stuff there. Those requests don't amount to a mission-statement but could be the start of something

Thankfully planning permission is not required to uproot hideous carpets - that would be another good start

[Keef]

Not sure the illuminated signs are good.... I'm thinking Neon pink!!!!! :-S

[Nero]

Remember when the Plough was the Goose and Grenade, I mean Granite? I got in touch with the pub company and pointed out what a tip it looked - dead ivy hanging down, graffiti, charred sign etc. A while later it got smarted up a bit. Not sure if there is a link or whether it is a coincidence. Nero

[Ko]

Someone told me that businesses have a legal obligation to maintain the exterior of their premises including removing graffiti - not sure if that's true but may be.

Also, if you get onto your local councillor, they will action any shops/businesses that are not looking after their frontages, including clearing up litter in their forecourts.

[Ultraconsultancy]

Hi Ko

Businesses do generally have a legal obligation to keep both interior and exterior shipshape - but that obligation is to the landlord, not to government or local authority, and is enforced in order to protect the value of the freehold.

Statutorily enforceable obligations are to keep the venue safe and accessible, and not much else.

Ugly, you can pretty much get away with.

ultraconsultancy