Moving out of London for secondary school?

[HannahSE23]

I'm beginning to feel really unsettled. .. three of my really good friends are moving out of London over the summer primarily because they don't want to send their children to a secondary school in London. Plus last year four kids from my eldest's class left for the same reason. It's making me start to question if we should do the same. We love it here but are secondary schools really that bad? Is bringing up teens in London really that scary? Do people who stay find that it starts to settle down in terms of the countryside migration? And can people who have left explain the reasons why they left and if they really are happier out of SE22? I'm really surprised so many are leaving and it's making me question our motivation for staying. I'd really appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!

[Mrs TP]

No, London secondary schools are great and generally over-subscribed with 100s of happy 11+ kids. If 4 left from your eldest's class then how many stayed? I'm guessing the majority. Have you looked at the secondaries yourself? Do you know any yr 6 parents that you can talk to re the whole admissions process they have been through this year. I have a daughter in yr 9 and all is well. Go and look at some schools in Sept when they have their open days.

[Coach Beth]

This article explains why over the last decade inner London schools have improved so much that they now outperform any other region outside London.

http://theconversation.com/why-londons-secondary-schools-have-improved-so-much-28531

Over a decade ago, a concerted effort calked the Lomdon Chalkenge was established to raise standards in London's secondary schools. You'd be daft to move out of London for schools I think!

[confusedbyitall]

Just wanted to add that there is so much to do in London for teens - yes a lot just hang with their mates but its easy to get around on buses etc. and safe generally! Outside London you will be that chauffeur.

I have a teen that's thriving at school and looking at her friends from primary not many left probably the majority around here have stayed....I do have friends that moved and would like to come back but are now priced out.

Grass is not always greener!

[Fuschia]

We moved out before our oldest started y6. Although London schools are good, in ED the choices are limited - no coed 'neighbourhood' school that takes most of the local

Primary schools. I work in education myself, and I wouldn't have wanted to subject my child to the Harris machine.

The school he now attends is probably lower achieving than many london

Ones, but it is a short walk from our house and I feel very relaxed about him.

Last night he went after school

With some friends to local athletics track, then wandered off with them.

He called me up at about 6pm hoping for a lift home but I couldn't get him and he had to walk a couple of miles.

Didn't do him any harm. It's that freedom which I really like.

But we have moved back to my birthplace, my sister and niece live here.

I had no feeling of love from

Bromley and Orpington etc!

[Fuschia]

I would never have gone on to have children 2-4 if I DIDN'T live in ED at the time. The parks, museum, nature garden, playgroups, other mums and EDF made it all

Manageable!

But when your children get older you need it less. I work full time now, commute into London

Haven't made any 'mummy friends' locally, even though my youngest is only 4.

ED is unique for all that!

[confusedbyitall]

So teenagers don't have freedom in London - of course they do....

I suggest OP you listen to people with teens in London and are also very relaxed about them wondering the streets, off to theatre, athletics, whatever sports they choose!! On their own without having to be picked up!

Teens have been living and thriving in London for a very long time and now the schools are fabulously out performing those outside London.

[Fuschia]

It's probably our work (social services and education) which makes us nervous about letting a child out alone in London, it's true.

I think it's a very personal thing - if the OP is happy staying in London, don't be swayed by others who feel differently

[Coach Beth]

Growing up as a teen in 'idyllic' Nova Scotia, there are plenty of ways bored teens can get into trouble in the countryside!! That makes me adamant that I will be staying in London!

[EDmummy]

I was going to make a similar comment to Coach Beth and would echo Fuscia re making local mummy friends if you work or only have kids in secondary school. I'm not from the UK and life in the suburbs or a village make me shudder. My kids are Londoners (9 & 14yrs), love it and miss it when they're away. The oldest is in a Harris school and doing brilliantly. We have a new coed school opening soon so there'll be more choice BUT if you yearn for the countryside then make the move. God knows if my kids will ever be able to afford to live in their home town when they're older so maybe it's wiser to move further out like they will end up having to do.

[Otta]

The other day after a teen was stabbed in Sydenham, I was involved in a discussion on facebook. Several people were saying they didn't want to bring their kids up here and were heading for the hills. All opf these people were people that had moved to London themselves. Those of us that grew up here all seemed to think that things like that had always happened but it was certainly not wexclusive to London. I did start to actually feel a little bit like people were saying I was somehow not doing the best for my kids by keeping them in this terrible place.

Nearly all of my friends my age have moved away in the last few years, but mostly because of housing costs.

I love London and I'm going nowhere!

[Otta]

Who wants kids that grow up being scared of anyone that isn't a middle class white person?

[simonethebeaver]

We are planning to move out of London before our second starts secondary, but only because we want to move out anyway and want to be in place for her to start a new school. It's nothing to do with schools though but a desire to live nearer family. We almost moved this year but didn't, partly because our eldest is so happy at his secondary and the local school outside London just couldn't compete. I would never leave London just because of schooling - the ex-curricular stuff and width of curriculum alone in London are very hard to beat.

[slh2009]

Interesting what Otta says.....I was raised in a small town and couldn't wait to move to the city as soon as I could...I've been here over 20 years now and while I have loved it, now I'm a parent I must say I am thinking more and more about the nice, quiet (safe) upbringing I had! Of course it had it's down sides like always having to be chauffeured by our parents for a night out, but living in Sydenham I am feeling slightly nervous after this week's murder, not least because it's the third one in the 5 years I've lived here.

I'm definitely not scared of anyone who is not white or middle class(!) but I do wonder what the secondary schools are really like, particularly for a boy. I've no doubt the teaching is as good if not better than elsewhere but it is the other stuff that bothers me, gangs etc I suppose. But then I am sure there are gangs in other places too......It's a tricky one, I would really miss London...multiculturalism, convenience and entertainment on my doorstep but if it means I sleep easier at night then I might be tempted to go....decisions, decisions!

[Goodliz]

London seems to get a bit of a rough deal in terms of reputation for being unsafe - in my opinion. I grew up in a not very nice area of Liverpool and the problems that would have happened there seem to be of a similar nature to what people are worried about in London e.g. teenagers being mugged when out on their own, gangs, dangerous dogs, bullying etc. I think that will be the case for other big cities too.

I cannot see any reason why we would move out of London (apart from a great job somewhere else) and I don't think our 2 boys would get to teenage and thank us for it either.

[HannahSE23]

slh2009 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Interesting what Otta says.....I was raised in a

> small town and couldn't wait to move to the city

> as soon as I could...I've been here over 20 years

> now and while I have loved it, now I'm a parent I

> must say I am thinking more and more about the

> nice, quiet (safe) upbringing I had! Of course it

> had it's down sides like always having to be

> chauffeured by our parents for a night out, but

> living in Sydenham I am feeling slightly nervous

> after this week's murder, not least because it's

> the third one in the 5 years I've lived here.

>

> I'm definitely not scared of anyone who is not

> white or middle class(!) but I do wonder what the

> secondary schools are really like, particularly

> for a boy. I've no doubt the teaching is as good

> if not better than elsewhere but it is the other

> stuff that bothers me, gangs etc I suppose. But

> then I am sure there are gangs in other places

> too......It's a tricky one, I would really miss

> London...multiculturalism, convenience and

> entertainment on my doorstep but if it means I

> sleep easier at night then I might be tempted to

> go....decisions, decisions!

slh2009 I think this is exactly why my friends are leaving. Not the secondary schools themselves necessarily, but the gangs, muggings, violence etc that they fear their teens could get caught up in... I think that's what I wanted parents with teenagers to reassure me about... how bad is it really? And is life for a teen really better in the country? Thanks all for taking the time to respond so far. Your comments are really valuable.

[Monkey]

you're doing well, hoolanoona. My friends moved before their kids even reached primary school! I don't understand it. We're one bus ride away from the national gallery, royal festival hall and other museums and venues, go to see children's theatre every month etc etc... I really don't know what's not to like! Sorry, no experience of being a teen in London. All I know is that I grew up in provincial France and would not inflict this on my daughter. As soon as I could, I packed my bags and came to London. My neighbour's kid goes to Kingsdale, very nice lad, doing well, doesn't seem stressed... If my daughter grows up to be like him, I'll be happy!

[Mrs TP]

Perhaps the problem is not the schools themselves but the surrounds. Probably fair to say teenagers are more likely to encounter a wider variety of street life experiences going out and about in their teenage life away from school in London than more rural environs but partly because they can go out and about and more opportunity to do stuff so more exposed. But then part of this responsibility comes down to parenting. Do you let them go out in the big scary city with tonnes of advice or do you let them go out in the 'burbs' without a care in the world?

There is no prescribed better alternative just what sits well with you as an individual parent but I would say it is all gradual, kids don't go from nursery to getting the bus to secondary school at 11 without many gradual experiences along the way. Are you comfortable with this transition or not? There is no right answer, just what suits your family.

[cactus]

When I looked around a number of Southwark secondary schools last Autumn, I was amazed and delighted. As others have already pointed out, London schools seem to be thriving, and the facilities and extra curricula activities on offer are

impressive.

I grew up in a rural part of the North of England, it was idyllic in many ways when I was young, but as a teenager, awful. I had to rely on my parents for lifts into the nearest town, my school had it's fair share of fights, and gangs were present in all of the surrounding small towns. Many young people learned to drive at 17, but I've lost count of the number of teens and young adults from my old school who were killed in road accidents. I go 'home' several times a year, and anecdotally, recreational drug use is a major problem now. Young people still have very limited opportunities to pursue hobbies and interests, and for those who don't move away, prospects are grim.

I have a child in year 5, and although inner city living isn't perfect, I'd much prefer to raise him in London, than anywhere else. I want him to grow up to be a citizen of the world, to mix with people from all walks of life, and to be better for it. So, I guess my point is, that London isn't a big bad dangerous city, it's a pretty amazing place to grow up, and risks exist wherever we choose to live.

[simonethebeaver]

I've read that Tunbridge Wells has a big teen drug problem. The epitome of safe suburbia.

[LondonMix]

London secondary schools are the best in the country.

I've always been a city girl but my husband grew up in the country. With little to do, teenagers in the country drink a lot and have a lot of sex from a pretty early age. There are lots of idiots that start fights simply out of boredom if they haven't pulled on a night out (I've seen this myself when we go back an visit)

There are serious drug problems in parts of Devon as well.

The countryside can be wonderful but its hardly innocent

[bawdy-nan]

I grew up in a semi rural part of the North East of England and the drugs problem was awful and there was nothing to do. Much happier to have my kids in a thriving, culturally rich city with amazing free things to do for young people.

[katgod]

My godson at nice safe grammar school in Home Counties was mugged for his phone. There are people with less than you wherever you go. Crime does happen elsewhere too.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I grew up in the suburbs and there was nothing to do. There were a lot of drugs, teenage pregnancy and no small amount of petty criminality and casual violence. As teenagers you also had to drive everywhere, to pubs and parties, often long distances. A couple of kids at my school died young, one from a drugs overdose and another in a car accident. It's easy to find false reassurance in the fact that the kids all from similar backgrounds and things are quiet, familiar and so seemingly secure. I think London offers so much as a place to live, as an adult, but as a teenager too.

[landsberger]

Southwark secondaries score above the national average and are all either good or outstanding rated by Ofsted. So, if I had a secondary school aged child in Southwark, I would fret not about secondary options in the borough.