Couples Taking to the Street, En Famille...

[steveo]

We had some epic lunches at the Moulin, measurable more by the seasons passing than the minute and hour hands. My two would have lunch, play for a bit and then sleep under the table where I tried not to flick fag ash on them.

I usually carried them there but have no idea how they got themselves home.

It's too late for Social services to intervene now

[aquarius moon]

I would never take such young children to a restaurant. I remember going to Wetherspoons to eat but my youngest was 6 or 7.

When they were babies/toddlers, it was dinner, bath at 6, bed at 7. For years.

Don't people use babysitters anymore?

[Otta]

Baby sitters cost quite a bit of money.

[*Bob*]

Everybody gets carried away occasionally.

Who hasn't tried to carry the pushchair silently up the path to the front door at 2am - from time to time, hoping nobody sees?

[aquarius moon]

Otta Wrote:

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> Baby sitters cost quite a bit of money.

Family members stepped in if I did ever want to go out. And babysitters were cheap back then. Friends teenage daughters etc. And it was just a bit of extra pocket money.

Dare I say it again? Those were the days!

[*Bob*]

Friends' teenage daughters are still your best bet. Even so budget for ?5-?6/hour.

[Jeremy]

I'm (more or less) with AM on this one, I don't think restaurants in the evening are a place for babies or toddlers. Not meant to sound judgemental towards MrB, each to their own I guess, but not for me.

[Otta]

aquarius moon Wrote:

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> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Baby sitters cost quite a bit of money.

>

>

> Family members stepped in if I did ever want to go

> out. And babysitters were cheap back then. Friends

> teenage daughters etc. And it was just a bit of

> extra pocket money.

>

> Dare I say it again? Those were the days!

I'm lucky to have my parents local, but they help out two days a week when the wife works, so reluctant to ask too much of them. Alas I don't have any friends with teenaged kids, they're all similar age to my kids, or my older friends have "kids" who are past that sort of stage.

But a lot of people (probably the majority) don't have family close by because they have moved in to London from elsewhere. It's just not like it used to be when you'd grow up and buy a house down the street from your parents and loads of aunts / uncles / cousins.

[*Bob*]

A few places are fair game. But most I think you should be out of by 7.

The problem is there are a small number of people who reckon they should be able to take their kids anywhere - and an equal number of people who think kids should be kept at home in a box until they get to about 16.

As ever, 'tis the unreasonable types who turn things into some sort of all-or-nothing thing where it could otherwise be so much less fanatical.

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

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> I'm (more or less) with AM on this one, I don't

> think restaurants in the evening are a place for

> babies or toddlers. Not meant to sound judgemental

> towards MrB, each to their own I guess, but not

> for me.

I think if you've got two 8 month olds who are likely to just sleep whilst you scoff a quick meal it's no problem.

Personally for me though, due to budgetry constraints (which will hopefully ease gradually over the next few years), eating out / viusiting the pub with the wife are extremely rare. I wouldn't want them to be ruined by constantly worrying whether the kids were behaving / annoying anyone.

We do loads with our kids, way more than I ever did as a kid, so I feel no guilt at all in saying that if I get to go to the pub, I don't want them anywhere near me!

[Otta]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> The problem is there are a small number of people

> who reckon they should be able to take their kids

> anywhere - and an equal number of people who think

> kids should be kept at home in a box until they

> get to about 16.

>

> As ever, 'tis the unreasonable types who turn

> things into some sort of all-or-nothing thing

> where it could otherwise be so much less

> fanatical.

Exactly right.

See also

Cyclists / drivers.

Entitled parents

Annoying hipster types

And so on, and so on.

People (me included) are quick to tar a group with the same brush, based on the fact they were annoyed by one dickhead.

[Jeremy]

Otta Wrote:

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> I think if you've got two 8 month olds who are

> likely to just sleep whilst you scoff a quick meal

> it's no problem.

On a tangent - I don't think there has *ever* been a time when our daughter would have reliably slept while we ate a meal. Certainly at 8 months, getting her to sleep was a mission which could take anything up to an hour - and then there was always a good chance she'd wake up in an hour's time and you'd have to do it all over again. Going out to dinner with her in a buggy was totally unrealistic.

[Jah Lush]

Two eight month olds equals a buggy or two clogging up space and that's not something you want to veer around when you're out on the sauce.

[*Bob*]

Young children need conditioning. It's important to expose them to loud, pounding music into the early hours after they're put to bed - on a suitable number of occasions, so they get used to it.

[Jah Lush]

I agree but you can do that at home.

[*Bob*]

Well yes, that's what I meant.

Pushchair are frowned upon in nightclubs, so I'm told.

[Otta]

MrB wasn't out on the sauce, he was out for a meal, not in a pub.

Basically it's all relative. As Jeremy's post highlights, all babies / kids are different. Some (very bloody lucky) parents get babies that will sleep through anything for long periods. Others don't. You have to make plans accordingly. Obviously if you have a baby that screams all the time, a non selfish person would probably think it best not to take that baby to a place where people wanted to enjoy a meal or a few beers in peace.

[Pickle]

This has potential to go round in circles.

My opinion (3 kids under 9) is that if I'm going out, I don't want them anywhere near me. Love them, obviously, but not so much after 7pm when I've clocked off for the day.

On the few occasions we've ventured to the Herne during the day with the kids, I've hated every minute of it, as find myself stressed out by the kids who are left to run wild by parents lacking any kind of common sense.

We regularly eat at Si Mangia as a family, it's our standard "go to" for birthdays etc. We eat early, take pens/paper/phones, and leave at the first sign of the kids loosing the ability to sit quietly and respect the fact not everyone loves kids.

It's not rocket science :)

[Dopamine1979]

I agree with Otta and Pickle.

Even the occasional lunch in a pub/cafe/restaurant with my 2 kids (both under 4) leaves me wondering why we bothered spending the money on a so-called treat when we all would have been less stressed just eating at home.

I view the odd occasions when I'm lucky enough to be allowed out to a pub with my mates or even just for a solitary pint as a healthy (and essential) brief escape. I return home feeling recharged (and I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm pissed).

[MrBen]

Otta Wrote:

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> MrB wasn't out on the sauce, he was out for a

> meal, not in a pub.

>

> Basically it's all relative. As Jeremy's post

> highlights, all babies / kids are different. Some

> (very bloody lucky) parents get babies that will

> sleep through anything for long periods. Others

> don't. You have to make plans accordingly.

> Obviously if you have a baby that screams all the

> time, a non selfish person would probably think it

> best not to take that baby to a place where people

> wanted to enjoy a meal or a few beers in peace.

Ah thanks Otta. Always nice when someone explains your post on your behalf to those who didn't read it properly. No pubs, pick your restaurant (Le Chardon would be a no for example) and find a table that allows you to tuck the buggy out the way, be considerate to all, get out by 8 ish and I can't see a problem.

[Jah Lush]

I did read your post properly Mr Ben though I confess my description of your activity wasn't entirely accurate. Apologies if you took offence.

[steveo]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Friends' teenage daughters are still your best

> bet. Even so budget for ?5-?6/hour.

Bargain

[MrBen]

Jah Lush Wrote:

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> I did read your post properly Mr Ben though I

> confess my description of your activity wasn't

> entirely accurate. Apologies if you took offence.

None taken. Do you do pub babysitting? It would be a great service to have that outside Franklins next time I want to see a film.

[Otta]

That's a bloody brilliant idea.