Water torture

[SeanMacGabhann]

are you serious mathew?

christ this place has gone to the dogs lately

What is the answer? Well what is the question?

here's one - should drugs be illegal in the first place? Where does the crime stem from - the drugs, the dealers or forcing something with a pretty large market into the shadows?

Here's another - what's wrong with existing legislation to catch drug dealers - my understanding is that people are more hacked off wih the sentences thet receive than the fact that they aren't caught

Thirdly - where do you live? Because I can grass you up when we have a police state and see how you like it.

[legalbeagle]

matthew123 Wrote:

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> Well if water torture isn't acceptable for certain

> elements of the crime world then what is the

> answer - because just saying something is wrong is

> just passing the buck. Horses for courses I say.

Who gets to choose which elements of the criminal world deserve torture and when and in what form? Who agrees to become a state trained torturer? Do you really want to live in a country where there is public debate about whether child sex offences are more serious than adult sex offences, and if so, whether punishment by genital mulitation would be an acceptable form of torture to elicit confession? Are you able to sit through a torture session and feel just as humane and dignified as you do at the moment? Do you trust our police force and politicians enough to make those decisions for you and stick to them?

[jimmy two times]

Why has this place gone to the dogs Sean? Because some of us have views that are not as liberal as yours ? Well I'll admit, I hate drug dealers. I also hate Paedos. And I hate people who commit random acts of violence for absolutely no reason at all. And quite frankly I would not lose a wink of sleep to know that these people were getting all that's coming to them. Call it karma.

[SeanMacGabhann]

The place has gone to the dogs because you don't have to have a scintilla of time for drugdealers/paedos to realise that employing the tactics you espouse is a road to hell for all of us

Investing the police/army with that kind of power (or whenever/wherever they decide to seize it for themselves) has never ever ever ever ever ever led to any kind of peaceful harmonious society with nothing to fear. or are you going to show me somewhere? And don't forget to show the whole picture now...

The place has gone to the dogs because some people think it's enough to say "I don't like drug dealers or paedos" as if there is a bunch of us who do. You haven't thought beyond your most basic instincts - "maim! destroy!"

[legalbeagle]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Why has this place gone to the dogs Sean? Because

> some of us have views that are not as liberal as

> yours ? Well I'll admit, I hate drug dealers. I

> also hate Paedos. And I hate people who commit

> random acts of violence for absolutely no reason

> at all. And quite frankly I would not lose a wink

> of sleep to know that these people were getting

> all that's coming to them. Call it karma.

I hate Nick Griffin, Paris Hilton and people who split their infinitives. Shall we kill them too? Or just lop off a limb?

[????]

Oh come on people, if it's a wind up fair does but torture? I'm squarely with Sean on this and that's nothing to do with liberalism just having some sort of workable legal system operating er.....legally

[HAL9000]

These same six officers are under investigation for serious corruption: allegations that they stole property during other raids (including, it is said, drugs).

The case against the alleged waterboardees has been dropped so as not to compromise the corruption investigation

[matthew123]

Sean - I wasn't having a go in particular at drug lords but more a general point that we cannot slap everyone's wrist and expect them all to fall into line. No, different elements need different policies. There is no one solution for all.

How many people are against the death sentence and torture because they are concerned they'll one day through no fault of their own be the victim of such punishment, rather than think what will make this country a safer place for law abiding citizens?

[SeanMacGabhann]

* checks the calendar *

yep 2009 still

have we not spent several millenia learning valuable lessons. Death Sentences and torture have never made for A Good And Happy Place to Live. In fact they have made things very much worse.

What will make the country a safer place for law abiding citizens? In another thread I said you have 2 choices - the scandanavian liberal model or the Saudi rule-by-fear

The model WE have chosen in this country makes for dog eat dog - so you can't cry foul when teh dogs get rabid.

Oh and whatever system you choose you will never be able to be a 100% safe. Humans just ain't like that. But we can usefully spend our lives trying to mitigate baser instincts as much as possble. And that inclide torture, death penalty etc right in there with murderes and rapists

Is that liberal? or is that not just screamingly, blindingly obvious. Prove me wrong - show me anywhere outside Jon Gaunts head where this kind of madness has led to a better society?

[jimmy two times]

I would not compare Paris Hilton, or even Nick Griffin, to a drug dealer or a paedo.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Paris Hilton fair enough - I would hold out aganst exhonorating (sp) Mr Griffin tho

Anyway - back to the matter in hand.. come on jimmy - anyplace or time in history where this kind of thing worked?

[legalbeagle]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> I would not compare Paris Hilton, or even Nick

> Griffin, to a drug dealer or a paedo.

And that's the point. Where do we draw the line?

[Jeremy]

How can anyone think it's OK to torture suspects to force an admission of guilt??

I could understand the death penalty thing, even if I didn't agree with it. But this... this is bonkers!

[Shu.Kurimu.Sensei]

"There is no need for torture: hell is other people."

[jimmy two times]

Where do we draw the line? Is there a need to draw a line between an annoying celebrity and a paedophile? Surely any fool can differentiate?

Sean what do you mean by 'worked' ? You use two examples, the Swedish model and the Saudi model. Do you have statistics to compare the drug dealing convictions in Sweden compared to Saudi Arabia? How else can it be proved which system works with regards to this type of crime?

[legalbeagle]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> Where do we draw the line? Is there a need to draw

> a line between an annoying celebrity and a

> paedophile? Surely any fool can differentiate?

Yes JTT they can, and I was exaggerating to make the point. You hate drug dealers. Others hate rapists. Others think armed robbery in your own home in the middle of the night when your wife and kids are asleep is as terrifying as it can get. You seem to be arguing that some of these things deserve torture as a response, and by extension some don't. I have no doubt that some people would happily torture Nick Griffin simply for the political views he holds. The point is that someone has to draw the line between crimes that are awful and crimes that are so serious that torture to gain confession is a valid tool. Who are they and how do they do it?

[????]

Pitchforks and torches...we know it makes sense

[jimmy two times]

What crimes have Paris Hilton and Nick Griffin committed ?

[legalbeagle]

jimmy two times Wrote:

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> What crimes have Paris Hilton and Nick Griffin

> committed ?

Paris Hilton is a convicted drink driver and has been to prison for it. Should she have been tortured to extract a confession to other drink driving occurences that the police didn't happen to catch her commiting? On your logic if she's done it once she's probably done it more than once, and drink divers have killed in the past. Nick Griffin has been investigated several times for inciting racial hatred and corruption though no charges has ever been brought. Should he have been tortured in order to extract a confession during either of those two investigations? Some instances of incitement to racial hatred have led to murder.

[Shu.Kurimu.Sensei]

Griffin should have been tortured to death a long time ago

[antijen]

I think all drugs should be legalised, people should be able to decide for themselves as they do with alcohol, etc.

[*Bob*]

Could we get them legalised in the next month or so?

I've got a couple of festivals coming-up and I hate having to fish a ziplock bag out of a pot of Brylcreem.

[bigbadwolf]

I had you down as more of a Pomade man *Bob*. It can be a hard knock life down in the Deco.

[antijen]

*Bob* Dont put your brylcreem on going in you might end off with a hairSPRAY, tee hee.

[HonaloochieB]

I reckon that as well as not being allowed to join the Freemasons our rozzers should not be allowed box sets of The Shield.