is this theft?

[duncdunc68]

restaurants that put the service charge directly onto the bill when paying with cards. The 'gratuity' goes straight to the owner and is , in some cases, made up in the wages and not given over and above the salary.

the budda jazz in denmark hill is guilty of this i believe.

please insist that they do not include the tip in the bill when paying by card, and give a monetary tip to the waiting/cooking staff who are probably on minimum wages anyway.

shame on u bj..

[sophiesofa]

Not all restaurants do that but I very surprising amount do. I think there was talk of making a new rule/law (don't know correct word!) to make employers not use tips as part of the actual wage.

[bignumber5]

Soon to be illegal practice, I can remember the news reports (slow news month, admittedly) saying that service on bills should be addressed by simply asking the wait-staff if they see it, and doing as you suggest if they don't.

[RosieH]

Yep, with BN5.

In some places the waiting staff do get the tips added onto credit cards, so is always worth checking. Not all restaurants are evil.

[HellNoHellYeah]

It is theft, yes. Several thousand restaurant proprietors have done hard time for this crime.

[cate]

Had lunch in Le Pain Quotidien and they levied a service charge. I asked the waitress if she got the entire amount and she said, no, only 20% of it. So I made them deduct the charge and gave the amount to the waitress. The Herne also levies a charge but haven't asked if the server gets all of it. Will do now, or does anyone know?

[duncdunc68]

the owners should be put in stocks an breathed on by HellNoHellYeah..

[redberries]

The staff at the Herne do get the service charge but it's a different system to most. The service charges are collected for the month and then divided between all of the staff in their monthly pay, this is on top of their basic wages.

[lozzyloz]

Sounds like a fair system at the Herne since it takes more than front of house to serve up a positive dining experience. I hope it excludes management, who you'd expect to be on higher wages and a profit/turnover related incentive.

[Mick Mac]

I would have thought (I understand its contrary to what people have said above and I may be completely wrong) that the waiting staff would have no automatic right to the service charge whatsoever (unless it is so stated in their contract).

I would have thought in a triple michelin star restaurant the service charges would run to several thousand pounds per night and I'd be very surprised if it went to the staff, apart form of course, forming part of the restaurant's turnover which is used to pay all staff salaries from.

[this is a completley separate issue from BN5s point about waiting staff being paid below the minimum wage and having it topped up to minimum wage levels with tips/service charge]

[Brendan]

So when you leave a service charge you aren't leaving it for the waiter? It is always my intention to leave it for them and not the owner who has already made a profit on the food I have just paid for.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm paying for a meal, if service charge is added then it had better go to those serving me - if the restaurant needs the cash then let them charge more or get more punters in but I'm not gifting them 12.5%!

More than happy to pay the 3-4? on an average meal to the waitress/waiter tho - that could be me soon!

[bigbadwolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFUDbOldMs

[Mick Mac]

If you leave money on the table its clearly for the staff - but if there is a service charge on the bill automatically I don't think you can tell them what to do with it.

[Brendan]

You can tell them to stick it up their arse.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Then why are they putting it on the bill - it's plain out of order! They have no business taking an extra cut of money after the punter has agreed to pay the prices on the menu (incl VAT remember)

They are bandits, plain and simple. They are screwing you and me and their staff

The fact that not all restaurants do it and some do says it all - it's just unethical

And some restaurant chains not only claim the cash, put pressurise staff to make sure people pay the charge on card instead of cash

Scum

[daizie]

couldnt agree more .

[AuraCaught]

Legal & Taxation viewpoint

A proprietor can charge whatever they like. So if a menu says a service charge is levied @ say 12.5% for tables of six or more persons, then a customer is generally bound to pay that sum.

If a service charge is added to a bill in other circumstances, i.e. not warned in advance, the customer has the right not to pay. However, if s/he does, the money is legally paid to the proprietor, who can choose to pay some, none, or all of it to the staff. Any sum paid to the staff is subject to deduction of income tax and national insurance contributions, before it is paid to those staff.

If the sum is paid in cash & the staff have an agreement between them to pool sums and divide them between themselves, (known as a tronc system) one individual member of staff (Tronc Master)must ensure that each persons' share is paid after tax & NICs.

If cash is simply given to a member of staff by a customer, the assumption is that it is given because the customer is pleased with good service, and therefore the waiter has received the sum because of his / her employment and as such that person should declare, at the end of the tax year, all such sums recieved so HMRC can charge tax & NICs on it. In practice, sums will go into the recipients' pockets and never be declared.

[AuraCaught]

Whoops, I forgot to say, no it's not legally theft! Slightly immoral perhaps becasue we all pay tips thinking that they will go to the serving staff, but that is only guaranteed to happen if you give cash to the waiter, anything else should go through the proprietors' books and be their income.

[SeanMacGabhann]

thanks AuraCaught - that's good info

Of course when you have restaurant chains (as described above) penalising staff who don't get enough tips through on credit cards then that takes morality even lower....

[thexwinglessxbird]

Somebody did this when I went to a restaurant with my mom. I was shocked! I just couldn't believe it. The food wasn't great. Infact, they had changed the menu without telling us beforehand (we had been going there occasionally on our shopping break) & the food was not what we expected & the price had gone slightly up. We were okay with that but please, the waiter giving themselves whatever tip they'd like from our credit card?!.... that's wrong.