William Rose v Rye Lane

[HAL9000]

Halal and Kosher meat animals are slaughtered in much the same way. I doubt whether much Halal meat enters the general food chain. However, Kosher abattoirs only process the top third of a beef carcass - the rest is sold on to gentile butchers without being labelled as such.

Halal and kosher meat should not be slipped in to food chain, says minister

[dbboy]

There are other butchers and supermarkets in the area to choose from for meat and fish, the choice where you purchase provisions is down to the individual.

[VHart]

I have lived in Peckham Rye since 2003 and I have not and will never buy any meat from the butchers there. There is no need for the butchers to smell the way they do! Yes, you do see them cleaning at the end of the night but hardly any use soap or disinfectant as far as I can see or have smelt. Also most of the butchers have cats living on site (obviously for the pest control). Admittedly some smell better then others so they are just about bearable to pass by in the morning wihtout having to hold my breath.

If it is snobbish to want to go to a butchers where I don't need to hold my breath and worry about the quality and origin of the meat they I stand proud as a snob and wish all the rest of you luck that eat there.

[HAL9000]

The middle part of Rye Lane is a microcosm of the markets in virtually every central African village, town and city where Indian, Iranian and Lebanese traders sell provisions to African customers. Those shops are not trying to attract white or English customers. The sights and smells are nurtured to make their intended customers feel at home. Even the staff's unfriendly attitude is cultivated to conform to their expectations.

Their bemused reaction to white customers is often because they suspect them of being revenue, health or immigration officials. Once the ice is broken, their natural friendliness shines through - most times. It's a case of horses for courses.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Keef, are you saying there is essentially no difference anywhere to the way animals are slaughtered? Because that's just wrong

It's not a country by country - you can have a small village in England which has an enormo-meat-processing plant right next to a small, humane butchers

The Eric Schlosser Book "Fast Food Nation" has a good section on the industrial processes in the US where the cheap labour are glad of when they get an order for meat to be shipped to the EU as EU regulations allow them to spend more time in prepping the animal - and basically not mixing as many different animals and shit into the same slabs. The meat is better, the conditions of the workers is (temporarily) better and the product we end up digesting is better. Mind you in that example the animal was probably not killed in a great way anyway..

As for halal and kosher - I'm not sure which is worse - inflicting unnecessary suffering on animals for profit (mass produced meat in the UK) or because of some made-up belief

Some good stuff here even if it does focus on the animals and environment to the exclusion of the workers conditions

And on a lighter note, Jonathan Coe's great novel about the 80s, "what a carve up!" has some great chicken mutation passages!

[Jeremy]

HAL9000 Wrote:

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> The sights and smells

> are nurtured to make their intended customers feel

> at home. Even the staff's unfriendly attitude is

> cultivated to conform to their expectations.

This all sounds highly bloody unlikely to me.

You're saying that the traders act rude just because that's what the customers want? And they actually intentionally create foul smells to make people feel at home? What the hell??!! This is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard.

These are bottom-rung butchers who sell chunks of meat at bargain basement prices. There is no marketing masterplan.

[HAL9000]

Jeremy Wrote:

> This all sounds highly bloody unlikely to me.

> You're saying that the traders act rude ...

> And ... intentionally create foul smells ...

> This is one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard.

I didn't say anything about foul smells or rude behaviour - those are your words.

Think of the aroma of ground coffee and freshly baked bread used by English retailers to lure customers. What may be unfamiliar to you may invoke fond memories of another's homeland.

Recall Idi Amin's treatment of the Ugandan Asians. Traders on Rye Lane need to be aware of cultural, religious and social issues that simply don't arise on the typical British High Street. They treat their customers in a way that, to us, may appear unfriendly, but is considered normal by the parties involved. Think Chinese waiters.

As an aside: many Rye Lane grocers sell fruit and vegetables on Styrofoam trays wrapped in cling film. I suggested that marketing innovation in the early nineties during a chance social encounter with the Asian proprietor of what was then the largest grocery chain on Rye Lane. He was complaining about long queues forming while bulk products were repeatedly selected, weighed and bagged during busy periods. The idea seems to have caught on as most grocers down there are doing it now.

[Keef]

Sorry, only just seen this.

Keef, are you saying there is essentially no difference anywhere to the way animals are slaughtered? Because that's just wrong

Er, no. That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I was saying. In fact, I was saying exactly what you've said in trying to disagree with me. Maybe I should have been clearer, but I am surprised you've read my post that way.

[jenren]

Um, the thing is, meat and especially fish should not smell like that. Fresh fish does not smell much at all, so the worse the smell basically means the older the fish. Anyone with a sense of adventure and strong constitution I say fill your boots. But I'm assuming my gag reflex serves some biological purpose, in this case to avoid eating the perishable (perished?) dodgy offerings on Rye Lane. If you can actually walk into the shop, wait ten seconds, and not feel like you've just eaten a beggar's sock served in a dirty ashtray then I'd say you're tough enough for ?1 whole chickens.

[mumra]

Out of interest, is William Rose planning to expand or relocate does anyone know? Saw that it had acquired premises opposite Dulwich hospital- had banner up yesterday.

[reetpetite]

Yes it will be another shop in the old Springers Wine Bar

[HAL9000]

jenren Wrote:

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> Um, the thing is, meat and especially fish should

> not smell like that.

I think one contributor to the bad smell is meat and fish waste in bins behind the counter or piled up on the pavement awaiting collection by the council. The waste is not refrigerated and quickly raises a stink in warm weather.

I doubt whether anyone would sell, let alone buy, meat or fish that smelt that bad.

[jenren]

..........but they would buy it from a place that smelled that bad?

And seriously, how does one differentiate between the meat and fish piled on the pavement awaiting collection and the meat and fish piled up on the pavement awaiting a consumer with a bad sense of smell? Like I said, fill your boots..........

[tasty_snacks]

tallgirl Wrote:

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> Naz, a young Sicilian butcher at what was

> Spencer's on Evelina Rd in Nunhead has excellent

> meat. All his pork is free range and his beef is

> grass fed Scottish and he sells organic chicken

> (normal chicken too if you don't want organic). He

> also does some deli too, great ham on the bone and

> on Saturday its Sicilian sausage day (slightly

> spicy, gluten free as they contain no filler only

> pork and sold by the length!). We won't go

> anywhere else for our t-bone steaks or ham.

i would second this- possibly the friendliest shopkeeper ever, to boot!

living just off rye lane, i have to say that i've never actually used any of the butchers down there. the other half was put off when she saw chicken 'juices' flowing freely onto fish. i'm not entirely comfortable with their presentation; people eat with their eyes, after all. doesn't mean i never will buy something- in fact i think i'll do it this week...

[HAL9000]

Carried out an olfactory survey of Rye Lane late this afternoon, one of the hottest days of the year. Not a bad smell anywhere! In fact, the distinct fragrance of incense wafted from some of the shops. Is it possible that this thread has had a positive impact?

[icecreamcrying]

i buy seabass often from that Chinese supermarket, very very good.

[lenk]

HAL9000 Wrote:

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> Carried out an olfactory survey of Rye Lane late

> this afternoon, one of the hottest days of the

> year. Not a bad smell anywhere! In fact, the

> distinct fragrance of incense wafted from some of

> the shops. Is it possible that this thread has had

> a positive impact?

I don't think it ever did. I just think some people get anxious whenever they smell anything 'ethnic'.

[HAL9000]

lenk Wrote:

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> I don't think it ever did. I just think some people

> get anxious whenever they smell anything 'ethnic'.

That may be so, but Rye Lane has not always been a perfumed garden.

[lilly123]

i guess the butchers job is to get the meat in quite quick off of the lorry, i have know quite a few butchers use shopping trollies in such high weather, supermarkets are no better, because we see sainsburys, morrisons, sommerfields adverts on tv, their meat i guess they do no differnt to our local butcher,we think as supermarktes as being fresh, dont think so, what about baked fresh in store, this is not true either, many supermarkets cakes, bread etc are sent in frozen, so when their customers appear they smell the goodness of freshly baked bread, sorry they have been defosted in store, very few supermarkets bake on the premises, so folkes dont be fooled by adverts.As for vermin most supermarkets have a plague of mice even rats, morrisons in peckham is built over a swimming pool that was never filled in, they are thriving with rats because of this.