Elgin Marbles

[mockney piers]

Sounds fair. Perhaps Tunisia can join forces and sue Italy for damages done to Carthage whilst they're at it ;)

Mind you animal rights groups might have something to say about the treatment and fate of all those poor old elephants.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Do the English need to give the Welsh half of Stonehenge as that is where half the stones come from and we probably didnt pay for them or get a signed chit?

[Huguenot]

Right. That's it.

The Moos that roared indeed.

If they didn't have a farking chit, I don't understand the blinking dispute.

[Huguenot]

To pay respect to Atila, who is carrying offence like a rucksack, I was only trying to point out that majority doesn't confer quality of thought... and actually it was in support of repatriation, read the post again.

From a capital punishment perspective, I wholly ally myself with retribution, the p*sser is that we get it wrong. It takes an academic nonce to point out the inconsistency when the mob is baying for blood. I'd thrash the bastard until their skin came off, but only if I was sure it was the right guy. Not recently a history of the British legal system.

Percentages are weak in this area.

I'm not colonial, but more specifically neither is the BNP. Their prediliction revolves around a good hosing down afterwards, not colonial oppression. They'd probably prefer that the bloody foreigners didn't exist, let alone explore culture and learning.

Honestly? I'd prefer to see the marbles with the Parthenon in the background. But it's not about me is it?

[Huguenot]

And since I'm on a fugging roll....

Democracy isn't about majority, it's about consensus. Which is very different. Thank (whoever I need to thank).

[Huguenot]

Oh, and Socrates (Plato), yeh. Nitwit.

[Huguenot]

That's addressed nicely at nitwits, not Moos, as were my other posts.

Even so Moos, you present a number of grammatical problems.

I hope some bruiser isn't going to suggest that Plato was Greek, any more than George and the Dragon were British.

[Brendan]

Well we could just bring the Parthenon to Britain put its marbles back and set the whole bloody lot up in Dulwich Park. No acid rain and fewer British tourists clambering all about the place.

[AllforNun]

"I am afraid I am not getting into poor and illiterate arguments about national identities because clearly you have issues and narrow points of view. In addition your grasp of history stems from a colonial perspective hence all the weak arguments. Do you vote BNP?"

Ching Ching, nailed him there you did........then he ducked behind " the prevailing academic argument " and a sprinkling of sudden middle class mockery !

[Atila Reincarnate]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> To pay respect to Atila, who is carrying offence

> like a rucksack, I was only trying to point out

> that majority doesn't confer quality of thought...

And I agree, please re read my post. As for carrying offence around like a rucksak, why is it that when anyone has the audacity to challenge a view on this Forum they get accussed of taking offence too easily? The pompous attitude taken by yourslef suggesting that the general piblic can't be trusted to make decisons or to have a view of worth is what really troubles me more than anything. It suggests that the author of such statements has an intellecect and thought process far superior to anybody else. That's my problem. AS for the Elgin Marbles, sure give them back. But where do you draw the line. The British museum, and many other museums throughout the globe, would soon empty out if we take this view.

[Huguenot]

You didn't get hammered by the forum, you got hammered by me.

Whether I'm superior or not depends on your point of view.

Yes I'm a prat, so bite me. Child.

[rgutsell]

Hi all

What about looking at this way.

If someone had ripped out Nelson column one night, (without permission) then sold it to our enemy (lets say.....Hitlers Germany, for the arguments sake), and then we waited a couple of centuries, during which time the government and nation changed, (lets say from the United Kingdon to just Britain, which is not unlikely) we would not be able to get it back from the Germans "Because it had been sold in good faith legally" and the current country did not exist at the time. Is that correct??

In my opinion, The Elgin marbles were nicked, stolen, lifted, wafted away etc etc.

Give them back.

[Huguenot]

Well yes, and that simplistic claptrap reminds me why we don't allow morons to set the agenda.

Can I help you across the road?

[Huguenot]

That was spiteful wasn't it? I recant.

[AllforNun]

sweet mother of pearl - what an earth has been going on over here, has huguenot lost his marbles ! bite me ? well whatever next

[mockney piers]

I suspect he was in his cups.

A more accurate comparison mght be King George I selling the Aylesbury stones to his cousin in Hanover (to protect them from a turnpike bypass that was planned) and us demanding them back from the Kestner Museum now because they're 'British'.

Make of that what you will

[Moos]

Huguenot Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> That's addressed nicely at nitwits, not Moos, as

> were my other posts.

>

> Even so Moos, you present a number of grammatical

> problems.

>

> I hope some bruiser isn't going to suggest that

> Plato was Greek, any more than George and the

> Dragon were British.

Dearest Hugo, I have no idea what you mean but I find it perfectly plausible that I may have made grammatical errors in my post. Wasn't George a Turk or summink?

[Brendan]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A more accurate comparison mght be King George I

> selling the Aylesbury stones to his cousin in

> Hanover and us demanding them back from the

> Kestner Museum now because they're 'British'.

As plausible an argument as any on this thread so far.

[louisiana]

Elgin wasn't the only one. Much of the interesting Lycian remains around SW Turkey were also taken by Brit 'explorers'. However, the Turks have so many ancient remains that they import foreign dig teams year in, year out, and still can't even dig up what's there, let alone find a place for it all in museums. On a visit to Xanthos last month we found much neglect.

[Brendan]

The Turks don?t ?import? them those foreign dig teams are all foreign funded too. To their credit the Turks are very accommodating of foreign archaeologists as they see the value in it but there is very little Turkish funding or Turkish led archaeology.

It?s all Roman anyway so of little use to Turkish national identity.

[louisiana]

Brendan, I only use the term 'import' in the sense that these teams are from other countries and pass through passport control. I did not mean to indicate lines of authority or financial responsibility. Indeed they are foreign funded.

Not all Roman, though most of the sites do include quite a number of later Roman additions, such as the Roman theatre at Pinara. But the older Lycian stuff is far more interesting. As you say, not that useful to Turkish nation building.

[EDOldie]

Huguenot Wrote:

>

> I hope some bruiser isn't going to suggest that

> Plato was Greek, any more than George and the

> Dragon were British.

Ah, the benefits of a classical education. It's all greek to me this argument but what nationality was he if not Greek? He was born in Athens no?

[Brendan]

He was Athenian. He was born in Athens over 2000 years before the nation of Greece as we know it existed.

[Moos]

Hugo was pointing out that Plato was a citizen of the city-state of Athens, which was frequently at war with neighbouring city-states such as Sparta or Thebes which much later went on to become part of the Greek nation.

[EDOldie]

Oh right, so the Marbles aren't Greek anyway?