Life outside the Premiership

[????]

Ipswich late equaliser against Saints could be crucial. Getting very tight at the top now with Reading especially on a roll and Middlesboro out of their dodgy patch. Hammers have Watford and Doncaster at home next sooooooooooo probably going to drop points :-S

Birmingham's season starting to catch up with them and Southampton wobbling. I'm gonna go with the Irons and 'Boro or Reading for the automatics.

[ratty]

???? Wrote:

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> Birmingham's season starting to catch up with them

> and Southampton wobbling. I'm gonna go with the

> Irons and 'Boro or Reading for the automatics.

I'd take that!

The championship, is upside down, the championship is upside down! We're going up, with Donacaster, The Championship is upside down!

[kpc]

???? Wrote:

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>

> Birmingham's season starting to catch up with them

> and Southampton wobbling. I'm gonna go with the

> Irons and 'Boro or Reading for the automatics.

Inclined to agree about Blues - a few niggly injuries particularly to defence, some tiredness from the extra games we've played and bedding in of new loan players all factors in our recent dip. But a play-off place should have been the height of our ambition for the season. Just need to settle down and grind out a couple of results.

Reading's current form looks impressive, not quite sure how Boro have stayed up there, Southampton on the wane, Irons staying in form and lucky. Think it will be a very interesting last quarter of the season.

[zephyr]

Annoyed that West Ham equalised.... sorry. Fortunately we have a good lead in goal difference (at the moment) which is worth a point.

Not sure we are on the wane... last night was the first goal we have conceded since we played west ham last month and got 16 out of the last 18 available points

[????]

Happy when Hammers equalised but now tha's worn off just annoyed that yet again our consistency against relatively mediocre teams has a few times this season felt like we took our feoot of the pedal having got some pace up. Sorry about Saints' form Zeph, didn't realise that just felt that you'd slipped a bit before last night, maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part ;-)

[maxxi]

Struggling - and relying on loan-ee Lansbury and new boy Vaz Te - not good signs.

Why is it always like that at home?

Wacky theory #13. - I don't think home form has been tip-top since they moved the West Stand back years ago and had that big gap between pitch and stand which they never properly closed.

Maybe it's a taste of what would happen to home form if the move to the Olympic Stadium went through.

[????]

I think you're right to some degree, the atmosphere's been crap at UP for years now IMO as it's not closed in, in comparison to say the Lane (though it grieves me to say it but Jah won't visit this bit...hopefully). I also think that generally a lot of teams come to the Boleyns with a draw in mind in this division which makes it hard when we have a decent squad but not that much creativity, linked to point one I think our fans put enormous pressure on the team and - i hate to say it - are prolific slaggers off of their own team compared to many other sides support. I remember 'Hammers Legends' such as Ray Stewart and Steve Potts gettuing slughtered by the Chicken Run until they'd established themsevlse, Alan McKnight reduced to tears against Luton in the Mickey Mouse cup, etc etc.

Anyway, Doncaster...surely 3 points?

[zephyr]

???? Wrote:

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> Happy when Hammers equalised but now tha's worn

> off just annoyed that yet again our consistency

> against relatively mediocre teams has a few times

> this season felt like we took our feoot of the

> pedal having got some pace up. Sorry about Saints'

> form Zeph, didn't realise that just felt that

> you'd slipped a bit before last night, maybe it

> was just wishful thinking on my part ;-)

No Worries. We had a bit of a dip which coincided with injuries but hopefully we are back to playing how we should be. Very crucial and lucky win at Leeds the other day. Doesn't matter how you play, you have to score to have a chance of winning... which we did.

My mistake as well earlier 14 points from 18

[murphy]

kpc Wrote:

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> Inclined to agree about Blues - a few niggly

> injuries particularly to defence, some tiredness

> from the extra games we've played and bedding in

> of new loan players all factors in our recent dip.

> But a play-off place should have been the height

> of our ambition for the season. Just need to

> settle down and grind out a couple of results.

>

>

Hmm. Birmingham loan signings. Birmingham failed to file accounts as due on March 1st which means they now have a transfer embargo, however the day before they sign several players on loan. How is this allowed to happen when the owner Carson Yeung is up on money laundering charges and their books are not in order? Looks like a financial gamble to get promoted so they can get their hands on premiership cash to get them out of the mire. They also signed Erik Huseklepp from Portsmouth, so one club gets a player of their books by loaning him to a club that looks like it might go the same way if they don't get promoted. The Football League have to bring in much tougher rules for all clubs.

Hughton is doing a good job and I feel sorry for the fans but no way do I want Birmingham to get promoted. Having said that half the clubs in the Championship either have huge debts or tens of millions in loans from the owners. Palace now on a much more even keel fortunately.

[kpc]

The timing of the loans signings was very deliberate and purely for footballing reasons - the 93 day 'emergency' loan period now includes the play-off final. Clearly the club looked at the rule book very closely, both in terms of timing and in anticipating a transfer embargo.

Of course there are concerns regarding the late posting of accounts, but this is not entirely unexpected. Every so often one of the papers will run a story on our financial mess (the Daily Mail's turn today) but no new information has emerged for a while. I'm sure the Mirror and Guardian will run re-hashed stories in the near future too.

Carson Yeung's problems in HK are worrying, but involve the holding company BIH rather than the football club (I know this is a familiar ring to it) and the money laundering charges against him are for periods prior to his involvement with Birmingham City. The continued delay of his trial is inconvenient - now scheduled for November - not least in either attracting new investors/disposing of his shareholding. Obtaining hard/clear information about his case (or even on his true background) is nigh impossible.

The source of the financial woes stem from paying ?30m over the odds for the club in the first place (quite HTF you make that kind of error, I have no idea). Administration is a future possibility and I think that a practicable decision with regard to submitting the accounts will be taken on 28/29 April, after the final game, to see where the club are likely to be and whether to accept a points deduction for next season. However, where I will praise the club is in their efforts to (belatedly) cut their cloth according to their means - the mass exodus of last summer/selective sales in January/transfer fees only for Ibanez and Elliott.

The squad are united under Chris Hughton, show tremendous resolve on the pitch and the quality of football has been easier on the eye this season. The fans have had a bit more fun too and 5000 plus will be heading to Coventry on Saturday (oh dear), where both sets of fans can sing "You're not signing any more" to each other.

Even being in a play-off position is beyond the expectation of most Blues fans this season and, with 13 games to go, nobody in their right mind - let alone me - will predict where we'll finish. All I know is that the players will give absolutely everything on the pitch to push towards promotion.

Incidentally, we are not the only club in Birmingham with serious financial problems. The following link is for an excellent blog that specialises in football finances, well worth the read.

The Swiss Rambler

[????]

I think Chris Houghton's done a fantastic job, as he did with Newcastle. I'd have been happy if we'd got him as manager (apparently he's a Hammer fan too). It's great to see him and Chris Powell at Charlton confounding the steretypes about black managers in English football.

[murphy]

kpc Wrote:

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> The timing of the loans signings was very

> deliberate and purely for footballing reasons -

> the 93 day 'emergency' loan period now includes

> the play-off final. Clearly the club looked at the

> rule book very closely, both in terms of timing

> and in anticipating a transfer embargo.

>

>

>

> Administration is a future possibility and

> I think that a practicable decision with regard to

> submitting the accounts will be taken on 28/29

> April, after the final game, to see where the club

> are likely to be and whether to accept a points

> deduction for next season.

"The signings were for footballing reasons........" - ".....after the final game see where the club are likely to be and whether to accept a points deduction for next season".

What that really means is the signings are to try and get promoted and at the end of the season, if it hasn't worked we will take a points deduction. That's just not on, Birmingham have serious financial problems so why should they be allowed to spend yet more money on loan players?

Nothing against Birmingham in particular just wish the Football League could come up with proper rules that prevent numerous dubious owners taking over clubs and then sit and watch as owners make further gambles to get themselves out of the mess.

The Bundesliga has plenty of rules limiting owners, average ticket prices of ?20, highest average attendances in Europe and safe standing as well. What English fan wouldn't want that type of scenario.

[kpc]

Until the rules get changed, people will use whatever wiggle room that exists to their maximum benefit. Certainly Blues financial position is serious and could verge on precarious, but there are far worse examples of wilful overspending in the Championship (Leicester being a prime example). The risks that they have taken with loan signings are relatively low (three months wages, more than recouped by the release of Beausejour and Ridgewell in January with money left over).

I agree, the rules need a thorough overhaul and the sooner the better, preferably before clubs start going to the wall in large numbers which is the alternative. That has to include a 'fit and proper person' test that is, er, fit and proper. It needs to place financial constraints on clubs - I'm in favour of both caps on squad size and salary. However, at present, such changes are not a strong prospect. I cannot see chairmen with a vested interest in continuing the current system imposing change upon themselves.

And yes, the Bundesliga is an attractive model to any (rational) fan and I look forward to a time when consistently fair ticket prices (as opposed to cheap midweek tickets in February to see a 'lesser' team) and safe standing.

???? - interesting to know that CH is actually flawed! And agree that it's good to see both him and Chris Powell succeeding (add Noel Blake to that list for his work at England U20 level). Interesting to see what happens with Terry Connor at the end of the season.

[maxxi]

kpc Wrote:

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> I look forward to a time

> when consistently fair ticket prices (as opposed

> to cheap midweek tickets in February to see a

> 'lesser' team)

Kids for a quid at Upton Park on Saturday.

What do you mean Doncaster are a lesser team?!?

[kpc]

maxxi Wrote:

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>

>

> Kids for a quid at Upton Park on Saturday.

>

> What do you mean Doncaster are a lesser team?!?

Think schemes like this are great (as pioneered by Brady at Birmingham in the nineties) but then you need to keep them coming back. And Doncaster are anything but a lesser team when they can boast such galcticos as El Hadji Diouf, Frederic Piquionne and Pascal Chimbonda (the deals for Diouf and Chimbonda are rumoured to be very speculative).

[maxxi]

Piquionne's only on loan from the Irons and won't be allowed to play on Sat.

Hear ex-Iron Ilunga may be drafted in at left back though if Tommy Spurr (great name for a footballer) fails a fitness test and they can do a 'deal' (Ilunga's still a free agent having been dropped when WH brought McCartney back to Upton Park.)

I thought the other two were on 'until the end of the season' deals?

[kpc]

The idea being that they are in the shop window so that their agent can fix a deal for them, part of the wages allegedly coming out of the fees payable as part of the deal.

[maxxi]

Makes a kind of sense - there are a lot of players looking for clubs out there. I was quite surprised at the number of players WH have out on loan right now AND the number that have been 'let go'.

In their case though surely it's a case of 'are they still able'? especially after big Sam turned El Hadj down (allbeit after the fans said NOOOO! Don't you fucking DARE!!!)

[maxxi]

No,no,no,no,no,no,no. If Sam can't sort the home form out we'll come straight back down even if we DO get promoted first time. :-S

[????]

:X

[red devil]

Early season prediction of West Ham, Brighton, Boro, looking good for play offs ;-)

[????]

Five home draws in a row FFS!

At least Reading lost, Birmigham on that big slide and Saints within touching distance now - so it was just wishfull thinking on my part Zephyr :'(

[zephyr]

without stating the obvious, you need to do more than draw.

Starting to look like we may be getting there. There are some tough games ahead though for all the top 3 but fingers crossed we will stay top.

[maxxi]

The draws against Palace, Watford, Doncaster and Leeds are more worrying than tonight's against Boro but - I know it's lame but they weren't losses and I think that makes a difference psychologically.

If Maynard and Vaz Te get their act(s) together things will work out - still feel we're lacking in the goal-scoring dept. though.

Reading lost (the end of a 10 match unbeaten run) now they have a tough game against Blackpool then they come to Upton Park - those two games could decide it. Southampton have Blackpool, a Portsmouth derby and Reading coming up. It's all in the wash.

[????]

Crunch game this weekend - not confident :-S