Best snob post of 2009, now with added wriggle

[Keef]

Having read your last couple of posts, I have probably got you wrong, but

I want a school that is right for ED, the people who live in ED and aimed at their childrens abilites.

Still doesn't make sense to me. One kid who lives in ED, is going to be different to another kid who lives in ED, even if both of their parents are middle class.

[KalamityKel]

I'm quite curious of these "on your doorstep" secondary schools catering only for "deprived" children? where are they? No really which ones are you referring to?

[pk]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Bright kids are best challenged at more demanding schools. More

> demanding schools are not the best place for less intelligent pupils as they can fall behind. I

> don't agree that schools for all abilities work best for all children.

>

and are you suggesting that the 'middle-class' kids are the brighter ones and those from 'deprived areas' are the less intelligent ones?

[reggie]

Are poor people thick?

[KalamityKel]

Are rich people clever?

*chuckles*

[Mick Mac]

reggie Wrote:

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> Are poor people thick?

No but thick people tend not to get rich.

[????]

No, Reggie try and get beyond a knee jerk response like that and read what MM and others are saying...

but the academies that have been targeted at inner city areas have poorer results...of course there was a system that used to deliver a great education for working class and middleclass kids together at one time and were reducing the number of kids going to private school.... but that was deemed 'elitist' in the 1960s and thus scrapped - although not a in a few areas which funnily enough deliver the best state academic results in the country

[Mick Mac]

???? Wrote:

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> Like jeremy said, I think Mick's only mistake was

> in the wording where I think he said 'better

> demographic'...Am i going to send my kids to one

> of the academies with their current results and

> deprivation scores? No. Does this mean they are

> bad schools, not neccessarily, does that make me a

> snob, no, but my kids are middle-class kids with

> middle class parents (there I said it mockney)

> with 'middle class apirations including giving

> them the best education possible (within the state

> system). I don't think the academies are

> delivering that for a whole bucket of reasons - so

> the choice for many - who have the luxury of

> choice - is basically to go private or move out.

> Some schools which weren't just 'targeted' at

> inner city deprivation with traditionally poor

> results, would benefit all in the community,

> including working class kids Keef, and reflect the

> changing demography of the southern part of the

> borough....and I think that is what MM is getting

> at (correct me if I'm wrong MM). I don't think MM

> envisages having someone on the gate checking to

> see if kids coming in drop their aiches or say

> toilet like wot I do.

>

> One cap fits all eh or you're a snob?

Thanks for sticking your neck out Quids!

[Keef]

This is the pont I was trying to make. Money doesn't lead to brains. Yes kids from poorer areas perform worse than their wealthier peers, but this is not because they are less able, it's because they are not encouraged in the same way.

I'm not suggesting all schools should cover all kids, I can see the need for different schools covering different abilities, but the fact is, that should not be based on class.

Problem is, if a middle class child only had the brains to go to the lower ability school, their parents would get their middle class elbows out, and make more of a fuss!

God I hate talking in terms of "class" (simplistic outdated nonsense), but it's unavoidable on this thread.

[Mick Mac]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Mick Mac Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Bright kids are best challenged at more

> demanding schools. More

> > demanding schools are not the best place for

> less intelligent pupils as they can fall behind.

> I

> > don't agree that schools for all abilities work

> best for all children.

> >

> and are you suggesting that the 'middle-class'

> kids are the brighter ones and those from

> 'deprived areas' are the less intelligent ones?

I don't think I have ever mentioned class PK.

[Mick Mac]

Moos Wrote:

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> I think it's snobbish to want better education

> only for middle-class children.

Moos - I think its snobbish to have better education only for those who can afford it. Thats the position we are in in Dulwich.

[reggie]

Its funny how the word 'academy' which was meant to mean 'bright new shiny blair school thats doing really well' is now a dirty word.

[????]

and that phrase "Weapons of mass destruction" was a good'un too

[KalamityKel]

Academies...

[pk]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Mick Mac Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Bright kids are best challenged at more

> > demanding schools. More

> > > demanding schools are not the best place for

> > less intelligent pupils as they can fall

> behind.

> > I

> > > don't agree that schools for all abilities

> work

> > best for all children.

> > >

> > and are you suggesting that the 'middle-class'

> > kids are the brighter ones and those from

> > 'deprived areas' are the less intelligent ones?

>

>

> I don't think I have ever mentioned class PK.

Sorry you didn't (although you arguably implied it), so i'll rephrase my question:

are you suggesting that kids from 'middle income professional families' are the brighter ones and those from

'deprived areas' are the less intelligent ones?

[Mick Mac]

KK - that's a link to a Government site. Of course it is carefully worded.

[JetSetWilly]

so are you therefore proposing a school for the children born of "middle income professional families" in the ED area, because you don,t believe that throwing all children of all abilities in together works in all areas. you want a school that is right for ED, the people who live in ED and aimed at their childrens abilities.

what in effect you are proposing is selective education for the choosen ones and the rest can in effect get stuffed. you make a very broad assumption that a) all families in ED fall into the middle income professional bracket, b)that the children of these families will be of a suitable educational standard to go to this proposed school.

so for the bright children from the families in ED who don,t quite meet the level of the middle income professional bracket, where do they go, or are they suitable to attend by association.

what about the children of the middle income families who don,t quite come up to standard, what happens to them, as according to your beliefs throwing children of all abilities in together dosent work in all areas, or are you of the belief that it will work in ED.

while we all want the best for our children, what you are proposing is selfish, middle class elitism, that will in effect educate the children born of families, lucky enough to have parents earning enough to fall into your middle income bracket, and the rest can again get stuffed. your idea is flawed, ill thought through, and you need to go back to the drawing board and brush up on your homework.

[bigbadwolf]

Snob

-noun

1: A person who imitates, cultivates or slavishly admires social superiors and is condescending or overbearing to others.

2: A person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field.

I think (and I emphasis I) that going by the defenition of Snob then we're all guilty in some respect to being snobs in one way or another.

I'm a snob and I'm not ashamed to admit it either. I'm not a rich man of high birth and have many failings compared to others but I'm still without a doubt a snob. I look down on those that read tabloids. I look down at those that drink alcohol during the day. I look down on people who constantly protest against government. I look down on those that polute and don't recycle.

Basically I look down on a lot of things other people do that I consider inferior to my own habits and character. It's very easy to start on someone because they want better education for their children and have stated that they may even be prepared to pay extra to make sure that this is the case. This is because we automatically assume that those products of private education are going to look down on the rest of society. Not all public schools are Eton or Marlborough. I've a good friend who went to St Dunstans whose training to become a doctor and he's a man who I hold in great regard. Not because of his virtuous career, but because of the person inside. I know two lads that went to Dulwich College and they're good lads.

Just don't forget your own prejudices no matter how trivial they may towards this arguement before you go about unfairly branding someone as a snob because they have a different opinion to yours.

[reggie]

ouch

[KalamityKel]

My point to the link was to highlight what an academy is as it is quite clear there is a strong misunderstanding as to what is expected from such an establishment.

I was not aware that only academies were all that was available in the area... surely there are other places no?

[Mick Mac]

JSW - A good school in ED would be open to everyone based on locality, not earnings. Noone said there would an earnings requirement - we already have ample private education with an earnings requirement.

Southwark is a poor borough which focuses its new Education provision on lower aspirational areas. ED is one of the the wealthiest parts of Southwark and is not being correctly catered for.

Its very easy to take the moral high ground on this thread, but I firmly believe our area is not being looked after.

[Huguenot]

I couldn't quite make out what an academy was from that site.

Does it mean that an academy is a school partly funded by sponsors, that follows the national curriculum, that has standard entry conditions, but is free to dedicate part of the schooling - the 'philosophy' - to issues that reflect the sponsors agenda?

I can't make out if academies are allowed everywhere, or only in 'deprived' areas?

It strikes me that this approach is most likely to appeal to those groups with an agenda who set out to twist the minds of the young and brainwash the elders: churches?

[Huguenot]

What does a school with higher aspirations do that one with lower aspirations doesn't?

[Brendan]

I look down on a lot of things people do too BBW. I?m not a snob though. I?m just better than them.

[bigbadwolf]

I look down on a lot of things people do too Brendan. I'm not a snob though. I'm just English.