So.. France v Ireland and Ireland v France

[Mick Mac]

This picture is just before he also grabbed it with this other hand and ran into the net with it.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Medias/Football/200911/430x313/les-bleus-dans-la-douleur.jpg

[SeanMacGabhann]

Seems to be a bit of hysteria around Henry - would anyone bat an eylid if the same thing happened if instead of Ireland, the same incident happened in, say Ukraine?

The fact that none of the Irish players seemed to give Henry anything like a hard time suggests that if they were in his position, they too would have played the whistle and let the ref decide. I'm pretty sure he expected the whistle to go as soon as it happened

Not a single footballer (or i suspect poster on here) would then have told the referee that no, they admit to handling the ball. It's fantasy land

It doesn't make it any easier to accept we won't be playing in the world cup mind you.

[????]

Sean -

a) Would every footballer do it?

b) Even IF the answer to a) (and I don't think it is) is yes does that mean it's ok?

c) If answer to b) is yes, then should not there be a new rule for football stating "Footballers may try and do anything illegal to score as long as the referee doesn't spot it; if the referee spots it it will be penalised

Let's at least have some idealistic (and I acknnowledge it is idealistic) notion of spirit of the game eh? Oh everyones at it don't worry about it seems deeply cynical and dare I say it not completley true yet....

[Brendan]

Actually I would. Call me na?ve but sport should be play in a sportsmanlike manner. Otherwise what?s the point?

I realise that at professional level the lines get blurred and people do things like this now and gain but it doesn?t make it ok. It?s against the rules and that?s it. If you can?t play within the spirit of the game at least do so within the rules and don?t expect any quarter when you break them. In general most professionals still maintain some degree of integrity.

Although this is perhaps a case in point as to why I normally shun professional club football and only take an interest in the game once every 4 years even though I?ve played it myself for the better part of 25 years.

[Brendan]

What quids said.

[Mick Mac]

Have you not heard the Irish players interviews after the game Sean. They feel cheated and say henry will never live it down. It would not be appropriate to start shouting at him or fighting with him, they know this will not change anything. But you can be sure if there was anything they could do that would make a difference they would do it.

To refer to hysteria suggests you are above all that emotional stuff that normal people feel.

This is an email from my brother in law:

I?m trying to concentrate on work to-day! Every time I think of last night I well-up and think I am about to cry, I had nightmares all last night (honestly), what a lift it would have been, and what CRAIC next summer.

Ireland were Brilliant and deserved to go through, a jammy deflected goal on Saturday and ????????. Sorry I can?t bear to recall / think about that goal, one hand ball you could half stomach, but a FUCKI*G juggling act like that!

I know it?s been talked about, but the game of soccer has to do something to avoid situations like this, it?s just plain wrong and there are easy / simple ways to ensure decisions like this are eradicated from such important matches in the future.

Think I am going to cry now....

Your quite depressed brother-in-law

I guess that sums up what Irish footie fans feel like today. I'm not sure your post does.

[Atila Reincarnate]

Easties EL Wrote:

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> HAND OF FROG...The Sun, Mirror..Daily Star..maybe

> even the Metro

No it was some wanker on talkshite last night who came out with that line, and quite frankly it is a childish and racist, yes racist remark. Regardless of what he did, there is no need for such name calling. I wonder what the reaction would have been if a Irish palyer had committed this and the press and media had taken to name stereotypical name calling. The media banged on last night about how Zidane's stock had fallen when he headbutted Matterazzi, not in my eyes. If he had called me the names he called Zidane, he would have got a lot worse. In the same way this guy stated that Henry's stock should also fall, well sorry, not for me. There are palyers out there who have committed far greater crimes, Roy Keane purposely breaking an opponents leg and admitting to it is a far more heinous crime in my eyes.

Unlucky Ireland, but you are not the only side to have lost amatch as a result of such incidents. Remember Chavski v Barca last year?

[matthew123]

I think if it had been Diarra that handled the ball there may well have been a punch up at the final whistle.

There is a lot of hyprocracy in football and especially the media with their racially motivated headlines, e.g. Hand of Frog - but the Daily Mirror "French Nickers" caption is at best below the belt!

 

[silverfox]

The answer is simple and I'm sure it's been raised somewhere on the forum before - refs need to look at TV replays in such circumstances. This result should be the basis of the introduction of that system.

An independent official, watching in a studio somewhere should whisper into the ear-piece of the ref he needs to review the footage. Then the ref makes the ruling.

I'm not taking about every contested decision, throw-ins, corners etc, but for big decisions like goals and penalties where there is an element of doubt. Here, the response of Ireland's keeper and defence was immediate and forceful and put enough doubt into the ref's mind that he checked with his linesman.

We expect too much from referee's in a fast-paced game. A pause for a review of TV footage on the screens around the stadium for all fans to see is the way forward, even though it will not solve every single dispute (eg, '66 World Cup goal and Liverpool's 'Ghost goal against Chelsea).

Despite aiding the fairness of decisions, there's too much money at stake to allow incorrect decisions, TV rights, sponsorship etc when teams fail to qualify for Word Cup/Champions League promotion/demotion etc.

It won't be too long before teams' lawyers start suing for negligence and loss of income for bad decisions.

[SeanMacGabhann]

zoiks - what have I started?

Quids - Every point you make, I'm instictively on your side. I'm not trying to argue FOR any lowering of standards or acceptance of unsportsmanlike behaviour. I'm just saying that before everyone (phone ins, papers, commentriat, posters) lays the whole blame on Henry, some self-examination might also be in order.

If you or Brendan say that in truth you would be inclined to own up, I believe you. But I genuinely don't think any player onthat pitch last night would have done things different to Henry, and that's a problem with the game and needs to be questioned - but Henry as a scapegoat I don't buy

Mick - I don't know why you need to point out I don't speak for most Irish fans btw , I don't think I ever claimed to

[Ladygooner]

Tell me one player who would go up to the ref and say its not a goal - esp in the world cup qualifiers.

No team that has ever gone through a qualifying play off has ever gone on to win the World Cup.

How about laying some of the blame on the lineman and referee who failed to see it and the two players who were offside?

I do feel for Ireland but they did have 210 mins to win and didn't take advantage of some good opportunities.

I reckon France will be out in the first round of the World Cup if they play like they played last night.

[Mick Mac]

Sean - I thought your post came across as we would have done the same and stating that the Irish players did not confront Henry implied they somehow accepted it, I don't think the players or fans accept it and I disagree that we would have done the same.

I think you are recognised as Irish on the forum and I wanted to reflect other opinions to balance yours. Yours seemed a bit too concilatory/accepting for me. People will be angry and rightly so.

But I accept you did not imply you spoke for other people.

[silverfox]

As anticipated by Sean on the other thread:

IRELAND DEMANDS WORLD CUP REPLAY

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/international/article6922828.ece

[Sandperson]

Ladygooner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tell me one player who would go up to the ref and

> say its not a goal - esp in the world cup

> qualifiers.

> No team that has ever gone through a qualifying

> play off has ever gone on to win the World Cup.

> How about laying some of the blame on the lineman

> and referee who failed to see it and the two

> players who were offside?

> I do feel for Ireland but they did have 210 mins

> to win and didn't take advantage of some good

> opportunities.

> I reckon France will be out in the first round of

> the World Cup if they play like they played last

> night.

How about just blaming the cheating player who stole an undeserved place in the World Cup Finals? I think your Arsenal roots are showing LG. It was a blatant cheat and Henry should hang his head in shame. It doesn't matter if they do get knocked out, although knowing them they'll get through to the 1/4 finals and all this will be forgotten, they don't desrve a place.

[Keef]

I can't believe the gunners on here are supporting Henry so strongly.

Sean, you may be right, other players may not have approached the ref after. Robbie Fowler once told a ref that he shouldn't have had a penalty against Arsenal, but the ref gave it anyway (Fowler then took a very weak kick, although Jason Macateer latched on to the rebound, as he never scored goals).

The fact that this behaviour isn't expected, just shows what a sleazy sport, played by sleazy c**ts football really is.

[Brendan]

Ladygooner Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tell me one player who would go up to the ref and

> say its not a goal - esp in the world cup

> qualifiers.

That doesn?t make it right. In fact it makes it worse.

[????]

Also LadyG, the bigger sin is doing it in the first place

[Mick Mac]

What SP said - I was going to but could not be bothered.

[SeanMacGabhann]

I'm slightly surprised it's breaking down into Arsenal v non-Arsenal supporters as well - I'm definitely not saying anything just because he WAS (several years ago now!) an Arsenal player

And I'm repeating - I'm not saying what he did was right. I'm just saying it's a bit of a stretch to say he's uniqueley at fault some how

[Atila Reincarnate]

Sandperson Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ladygooner Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Tell me one player who would go up to the ref

> and

> > say its not a goal - esp in the world cup

> > qualifiers.

> > No team that has ever gone through a qualifying

> > play off has ever gone on to win the World Cup.

>

> > How about laying some of the blame on the

> lineman

> > and referee who failed to see it and the two

> > players who were offside?

> > I do feel for Ireland but they did have 210

> mins

> > to win and didn't take advantage of some good

> > opportunities.

> > I reckon France will be out in the first round

> of

> > the World Cup if they play like they played

> last

> > night.

>

> How about just blaming the cheating player who

> stole an undeserved place in the World Cup Finals?

> I think your Arsenal roots are showing LG. It was

> a blatant cheat and Henry should hang his head in

> shame. It doesn't matter if they do get knocked

> out, although knowing them they'll get through to

> the 1/4 finals and all this will be forgotten,

> they don't desrve a place.

By the same token do yo expect the hundreds of other players who've denied teams progression in cup competitions or stolen points by such behaviour to hang their heads in shame. Lets take the example of Rooney who clearly cheated against us to gain a penalty against Sol Campbell when we were on a possible 50 game unbeaten run, or would your Manc roots prevent from asking him to show contrition?

[matthew123]

Instinctively Henry has controlled the ball with his hand.. but it would have been very brave (and probably end his international career) of Henry to race over to Ref, as the crowd go wild and his team mates celebrate their passage to South Africa, to suddenly slap his hand and yell, 'Monsieur Referee, je suis un conman!"

[Sandperson]

Oh, come on Sean. It's ANOTHER example of the degredation of the game. ANOTHER nail in the coffin of something we all love and enjoy. Not to highlight another Arsenal thing, it happens with all teams, but I go back to the recent Eduardo dive. There is just no need for it. As Arsenal were the better side in that game France SHOULD have been the better side in this. They shouldn't need to resort to these lengths. Henry is a wonderful player and he has managed to not only sour his own reputation but bring an element of shame to his national side and partially taint one of the best sporting events in the world.

To much hyperbole?

[Mick Mac]

Yes - Can we keep the premiership team v team banter on the Focus thread.

Does anyone think there is the slightest chance of a replay?? Anyone?

Its quite rare for such an obvious cheat to be picked up by all sections of the media. Probably the most obvious cheat since Maradona? But England did not get a replay then and I doubt anything has changed.

[????]

instictively......mmmmmmmmm

[Brendan]

No one is saying that this is an isolated incident that needs special treatment but the fact is he cheated knowingly. That it was such an important game shouldn?t really have anything to do with it.

The fact that the entire game has become undignified and unsporting is perhaps another argument.