Chinese diners eat live fish in YouTube video

[silverfox]

Yes I disapprove and no I haven't watched the video (nor will I).

However, a bit like the Saudi death sentence and birching, our liberal views as to what is and isn't acceptable are not universally accepted and should we try to impose our views on others?

[candj]

Yes, a bit unnecessary but the fish is pretty much dead as it's been partially fried but to compare this to Saudi Arabian penal practices is a slight stretch, no?

[titch juicy]

is it any different to rick stein on the back of a boat eating an oyster freshly plucked from the deep?

[Mick Mac]

Found a video on Youtube entitled:

"Chinese speed cooking. Cutting, preparing and cooking snake and fish and serving while still alive"

Was not sure I could watch it at work (in case it might make me sick). Might be brave enough to watch it later.

Once saw on tv a few years ago some middle eatern country where they eat the brains of a live monkey through a hole in the table. The monkey is held under the table on a turntable. Worst thing I have ever seen on tv. Makes me feel sick to think about it.

[Mick Mac]

titch juicy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> is it any different to rick stein on the back of a

> boat eating an oyster freshly plucked from the

> deep?

do oysters have a nervous system? (I don't know the answer btw)

[silverfox]

Perhaps it is Canj, but I'm thinking more of the revulsion or disapproval we feel due to what we consider to be more enlightened values that aren't shared by other cultures and systems.

(Ps not sure why the Chair moved it to the lounge unless he/she thinks it's a You Tube prank)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6595481/Chinese-diners-eat-live-fish-in-YouTube-video.html

[candj]

To be honest, it doesn't bother me having viewed that video nor does eating drunken shrimp or live lobster carpaccio or oysters for that matter. A lot does seem to be unnecessary. Having said that I don't agree with Halal/Kosher methods of butchering and I draw a personal line where I wouldn't knowingly eat this type of meat.

For Mick Mac -

do oysters feel pain

[matthew123]

I watched the first 30 seconds and it is pretty sick, with the diners cackling with laughter as they prode the wriggly creature who is fighting for its last breath covered in sauce - this mode of eating seems more to do with cheap entertainment and humiliation than perhaps it being a cultural delicacy.

It's not a case of imposing our views but we are right to express disgust at this particular practice.

[Mick Mac]

Very interesting that candj.

I love oysters. Not sure they are in pain when you squeeze lemon on them and they contract - they just don't like lemon. Children react the same way.

[candj]

I react the same way with lemon! Probably more so with tobasco (my fav on oysters).

[iaineasy]

It's not a case of imposing our views but we are right to express disgust at this particular practice.

--------------------

why?

[annaj]

I think what bothers me about this is that there doesn't seem to be any reason for the fish to be kept alive, except for entertainment.

As I understand it, the head is wrapped in something cold and wet to keep the fish alive while the body is fried. Since there doesn't seem to be any gastronomical advantage to this, the sole (pardon the pun) purpose seems to be the spactacle of watching the fish thrash around as it's eaten. To my mind that is cruel as it involves needless suffering and I don't think it's a cultural judgement on my part to say that I don't much like the idea of keeping an animal alive while it's eaten, just to see it wriggle.

[HAL9000]

Islamic, Judaic and Noahide Laws forbid the consumption of any 'portion' cut from a live animal (Genesis 9:4).

The situation is not so clear cut in the case of Christianity, although the issue is raised in an apocryphal gospel in relation to cannibalism, where one would expect to find the relevant text in the New Testament, the prohibition applies instead to the consumption of animals killed by strangulation.

[matthew123]

iaineasy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's not a case of imposing our views but we are

> right to express disgust at this particular

> practice.

>

> --------------------

>

> why?

Freedom of speech - and if you approve of their behaviour you're free to applaud ;-)

[titch juicy]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> titch juicy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > is it any different to rick stein on the back of

> a

> > boat eating an oyster freshly plucked from the

> > deep?

>

> do oysters have a nervous system? (I don't know

> the answer btw)

good question- i have no idea

[dbboy]

if you look carefully it looks like it has been gutted, if so how do the gills still twitch?

[HAL9000]

dbboy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> if you look carefully it looks like it has been

> gutted, if so how do the gills still twitch?

It's head was kept cool while it was being cooked so its head and brain remained alive - gruesome.

[woofmarkthedog]

Oh please get real

At least they are up front with it . Rather than you kill it out of site, then i'll eat it thing

Look out for a youtube of a slaughter house, is it any better/worse the way the killing floor operates than a eating a fish "live" ? (Oh and the japanese do a similar thing, but with no pre-cooking at all)

Is shooting game birds good /bad/ ok /worse

Most people are too squeamish to think where or how our food arrives at the table, read "fast food nation" by Eric Schlosser

the section on how beef for mass consumption is produced, it is most informative. (Beasts die by the way, so careful hey !)

Sheeeez

W**F

[annaj]

Actually, Woof, as an ex-long term strict vegetarian who took a very deliberate decision to start eating meat again, I am far from squeamish or naive about how animals are raised and killed for me to eat.

But I still see a difference between killing an animal to eat it and allowing an animal to die slowly whilst being eaten for no purpose other than entertainment.

[silverfox]

So the logic of your argument then woofmarkthedog is cut its horns off, wipe its arse and throw it on the plate?

[thexwinglessxbird]

This is tragic. I simply wont bring myself to watch an animal being abused! Especially not after the Austrian guy who threw his poor dear dog off of a bridge & filmed it crying in pain... the dog, thank god, survived & is being treated. The bastard has been locked up!

China launches first animal cruelty laws

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=NewsFeature&articleId=1236789081705&marker=22

[Mick Mac]

Devils advocate:

What would eat the fish is we had not caught it and would it eat it alive? Only the lucky fish get the "priest" / sharp knock on the head treatment from an angler.

Would not be nice to be cooked alive though.

Interesting that keeping its head/brain cool keeps it alive. This suggests as long as its brain is happy it does not feel the pain? and has it been gutted? does that mean it has no central nervous system? is it the central nervous system that communicates pain?

I'm sure someone can answer all this questions - I have no clue.

[HAL9000]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Devils advocate:

> This suggests as long as its brain is

> happy it does not feel the pain?

I don't think we can make that assumption. The fish's nerves would continue to transmit pain impulses to the brain until the heat of cooking killed them. The fish would feel like it was being cooked alive.

> and has it been gutted? does that mean it has

> no central nervous system?

No. Gutting does not remove or disable the central nervous system; it merely removes the internal organs.

> is it the central nervous system that

> communicates pain?

Yes. Nerves connect the brain with all parts of the body via the spinal column, which runs along the backbone. In fish, the most sensitive nerves are concentrated in the skin along a feature called the lateral line that runs down each side of the body. The lateral lines would come directly into contact with the hot pan during cooking.

[Mick Mac]

I knew you would have the answer Hal. Nice one. You are our personal forum wikipedia.

But your responses are not good news for the fish i fear.

[woofmarkthedog]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So the logic of your argument then woofmarkthedog

> is cut its horns off, wipe its arse and throw it

> on the plate?

_________________________________________________________

No, no, no !

It would need provenance, you know the schtick where, what & when bla bla...

Plus a sprig of parsley of course

Hmmmooooo

W**F