Child abuse - Ireland's Catholic shame

[monica]

Declan, thank you, I dont take it personally, however I was brought up in a Italian/Spanish household, the saint on the mantlepiece, in the Kitchen and in our hearts was padre pio, so I have come to look upon him as a member of my family. I understand why DM feels bitter, a lot of the catholics do about the whole horrible situtaion, however DM can have a bit more respect in her posts, I feel she can be insensitive at times and this time i have actually spoken up.

[dulwichmum]

*

[Santerme]

monica Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Declan, thank you, I dont take it personally,

> however I was brought up in a Italian/Spanish

> household, the saint on the mantlepiece, in the

> Kitchen and in our hearts was padre pio, so I have

> come to look upon him as a member of my family. I

> understand why DM feels bitter, a lot of the

> catholics do about the whole horrible situtaion,

> however DM can have a bit more respect in her

> posts, I feel she can be insensitive at times and

> this time i have actually spoken up.

I am not in anyway religious, but even I know that you pray to the figure of Padre Pio and not worship it as an idol.

I think you are best leaving the hysteria to others who appear to be having an emotional breakdown over the subject.

[vinceayre]

me thinks the lady doth protest too much

Fiddled with at the convent were you DM?

[dulwichmum]

*

[vinceayre]

No I don't as a matter of fact ( spending the first three years of my life in a catholic orphanage hasn't warped me that much) but what i do find distasteful is a person being ridiculed for their beliefs from on high.

Oh and we don't welcome bully's in my shop so your presence wont be missed.

[monica]

dulwichmum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Do the newspapers disrespect you too sweetie? And

> the television stations, when they publish the

> facts about Padre Pio? Bless! You should get out

> more.

>

> The world is not flat, and evolution must blow

> your mind! How do you reconcile your blind faith

> in Padre Pio with the popes thoughts on the

> subject (I dare you to click on Huguenot's link),

> or the fact that it is one of the ten commandments

> that you should not put false Gods before the

> Lord?

Dulwichmum you are simply viscious, you dont know me, so dont comment. Thank god not everyone is like you. I cant understand what has happened, I use to find you funny, however now i find you Viscious and I cannot be bothered with you

[monica]

vinceayre Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No I don't as a matter of fact ( spending the

> first three years of my life in a catholic

> orphanage hasn't warped me that much) but what i

> do find distasteful is a person being ridiculed

> for their beliefs from on high.

> Oh and we don't welcome bully's in my shop so your

> presence wont be missed.

Thank you Vince for the support, That is why I really dont post on threads like this, because of people like DM, Ghastly

[Narnia]

vinceayre Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> me thinks the lady doth protest too much

>

> Fiddled with at the convent were you DM?

Frankly if Admin has any balls this post will be removed and you banned.

[batdog]

Hey D-Mum,

Thanks god not everyone is like you.... That's what makes you...extra-ordinaire.... >:D<

[Mick Mac]

DM. You really dont know when to stop. Surely you know when a point has been done to death already.

[Huguenot]

Good God, was that batdog?

He must have been after a squirrel.

[LegalEagle-ish]

But the point is all about blind faith ignoring presented facts and Monica appears to be doing that very Catholic thing of ignoring facts presented to her based on a blind faith. Why is pointing out the truth considered to be insensitive?

[Santerme]

I think there is a huge difference between commenting on a the systemic failure of an institution and essentially mocking an individuals beliefs.

Doing it in a fairly contemptuous and superior manner, to me, calls into question the character of that person.

As for facts, in this case all I have read are subjective observations, which you are free to call facts, I suppose.

[Brendan]

I think she was complaining about your general lack of sensitivity towards and prejudice viewpoint of a specific group of people.

Would you say this:

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Monica appears to be doing

> that very Jewish thing of ignoring facts

> presented to her based on a blind faith. Why is

> pointing out the truth considered to be

> insensitive?

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Monica appears to be doing

> that very Muslim thing of ignoring facts

> presented to her based on a blind faith. Why is

> pointing out the truth considered to be

> insensitive?

You can?t bang on about acceptance and tolerance in one breath and then be blatantly prejudice in another.

[monica]

Legal there are ways to point the truth out, as I have been saying throughout my posts, I do not ignore, what has happened I find it sickening, unfortunately the point I am making has been lost. Its the posts by DM I have the problem with, A lot of the posts on here of course have been negative, but done politely. DM has been rude and viscious, I do not agree with this, I always avoid posts like this because of the sensitivity issues, however I felt I needed to say something,we are all adults at the end of the day.

[LegalEagle-ish]

I know something about the Catholic way of doing things because the impact the Catholic church had on my mum was pretty severe, but I don't have enough knowledge about Judaism or Islam to make similar comments about their institutions.

[mockney piers]

The respect for beliefs thing is a tricky one.

I'm generally inclined to live and let live, but where does one draw the lines?

Alot of people were upset by discussion of Michael Jackson, they didn't believe he did those things, and requested we have some respect for their opinion and feelings which was just annattempt tomsuppress debate because it made them uncomfortable?

If someone I know is going to neuter themselves before dying to transcend to a spaceship, should

I try to intercede or respect their beliefs?

I believe a Jehovas Witness may allow themselves to die rather than get transfusion, but the state will intercede on behalf of their children rather than respect their beliefs and wishes.

Padre Pio as a family member is of course harmless, but when the pope thought he was a fraud shouldn't that at least ring an alarm bell somewhere, and as someone pointed out, this unquestioning belief and respect is exactly what has allowed so many priests and nuns to conduct their culture of abuse (I think taking abuse on a large sliding scale from bullying through to sexual predation, the report says that one in four Irish children is thought to be affected) to continue in a culture of impunity.

I don't see how pointing out the parallels in the psychological equivalence is disrespecting faith, merely pointing out a valid point of few surely?

Ill refrain from bringing heopathy into this though...

...

...

...doh!!!

[Brendan]

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I know something about the Catholic way of doing

> things because the impact the Catholic church had

> on my mum was pretty severe, but I don't have

> enough knowledge about Judaism or Islam to make

> similar comments about their institutions.

So? Saying this

LegalEagle-ish Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Monica appears to be doing

> that very catholic thing of ignoring facts

> presented to her based on a blind faith?.

Is making a statement about a person?s character based on their faith. That is blind prejudice you may as well be casting aspersions based on race or sex.

Personally I don?t give a dam about the catholic church or any of the others but I know prejudice when I see it.

[huncamunca]

Faith is just another opinion

Opinion should be open to debate, no matter how distastelful it may seem to the holder

[SeanMacGabhann]

race or sex are immutable characteristics tho

faith is either a) a choice as an adult or b) an indoctrination at childhood

it certainly isn't comparable

[Brendan]

Yeah but for many people (I?m thinking lots of Catholics, Jews and Muslims here) it isn?t as much of a conscious choice as it was for us Sean. I think you are aware of that. We are still obligated to respect peoples? beliefs.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Why would we be different Brendan?

As for beliefs - If Lady Mac suddenly decides she is becoming a scientologist, do I respect her belief? or do I understand that she is about to be indoctrinated and told to cut off non-believers (which is one of their doctrines)

[????]

Ladymacs not giving you the elbow with that old 'scientology' line is she Sean? ;-)

[huncamunca]

No boundaries. Nothing should be verboten.