Fight in Sainsburys this afternoon (January 03) (Lounged)

[ruffers]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> Ruffer >>> "Errrrr, the drinks aisle is at the

> back of the store....."

>

> Georgia said this was announced when the incident

> was elsewhere in the store..ie not at the drinks

> aisle at the back of the store...clever clogs.

> ;-)

>

So being a clever clogs ;-) where do we get people to move to as those pesky bad guys keep moving around...

And it would need to be a very carefully phrased announcement to not cause a panic. "Women and children to fruit and veg!" should do it.

[Nero]

Aside from all the rights and wrongs of Sainsbury's training of its staff, I am pretty sickened that a gang battle could have spilled over from the streets into a suburban supermarket. It might be a one-off, but it doesn't detract from the fact that for a certain minority of British people committing hard-core violence in a very public place with scant regard for others and little concern about getting caught is frightening.

[Mick Mac]

ruffers Wrote:

> And it would need to be a very carefully phrased

> announcement to not cause a panic. "Women and

> children to fruit and veg!" should do it.

Absolutely. Good idea.

[Sue]

Bellerophon Wrote:

Playing Devils Whatsisname, I should imagine some of those staff attempting to destroy the crime scene knew exactly what they were doing

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> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > That's rather a serious accusation without

> > presumably any basis of evidence whatsoever?

>

> >

> xxxxxxxxxxxxx

>

> Sue, do you know what a Devils Advocate is ?

xxxxxxxxxx

Yes, but on the basis of your wording, starting "I should imagine", it seems that you don't :-S

[Loz]

And it would need to be a very carefully phrased announcement to not cause a panic. "Women and children to fruit and veg!" should do it.

And what on earth do you think I want to be left to face a group of armed, violent thugs whilst the missus trots off to the tomatoes section? Would you like me to manfully protect the bread rolls or sacrifice my life in defence of the two-for-one offer on frozen peas? Perhaps shout, "Forsooth ye blaggards - unhand that half-price mouthwash, ye vilanous weasels..."?

[JohnL]

Sainsburys only have a limited number of staff so what is the priority

Fence off the area

Protect children from seeing anything

Protect anyone from getting hurt

Call the police

Protect evidence

Stop panic

In a terrorist attack, I reckon a 'fog' would descend very quickly - and this was not on that scale. Shows how difficult it would be if something on a larger scale happened.

[ruffers]

Loz Wrote:

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> > And it would need to be a very carefully phrased

> announcement to not cause a panic. "Women and

> children to fruit and veg!" should do it.

>

> And what on earth do you think I want to be left

> to face a group of armed, violent thugs whilst the

> missus trots off to the tomatoes section? Would

> you like me to manfully protect the bread rolls or

> sacrifice my life in defence of the two-for-one

> offer on frozen peas? Perhaps shout, "Forsooth ye

> blaggards - unhand that half-price mouthwash, ye

> vilanous weasels..."?

Zounds, methinks you speak the truth!

In other words I can't help thinking they got it about right. Best say nowt to frighten people it seems to me.

[LegalEagle-ish]

Domitianus Wrote:

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> chica1 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Security guards are just that, they are there

> to

> > provide a secure environment be it against

> > shoplifters, fights, nuances, etc.

> >

> > They are trained for such role and if the

> > Sainsburys's SGs are not then they should not

> be

> > employed.

>

> I agree, although I have to say I am most

> concerned at the prevalence of nuances in the High

> Street these days. Just the other day I

> encountered a nuance that, had it not been for

> swift intervention by a Community Warden, might

> have become an insinuation.

That was funny Dom, I had a hearty chuckle anyway!

[Ann]

I wonder if the attempts to 'clean up the blood' was from staff training directed at keeping the public safe from blood born viruses; the most risky being HIV and Hepatitis B?

I've no idea, I don't work in a Supermarket but I do find some of the criticisms a little harsh. It was a Sunday afternoon, there may have been many Weekend workers, some of whom who might well still be at school.

I'm not saying Sainsbury's were perfect in their management, I wasn't there, but were the shoppers put at risk?

It would be interesting to get some feedback from someone who works within the organization.

[eater81]

I find the attitude to the Sainsbury's staff of many of the people who have posted on this thread highly naive and amusing.

The fact of the matter is that supermarket staff, security guards included, are and always will be a complete bunch of useless muppets. Quite frankly if I were being paid 14k a year, I would be too. The fact that many of you expected them to manage the situation in a manner that could be remotely described as intelligent betrays a complete lack of understanding of the real world.

Tell ya what though, if you really wanna encounter a bunch of chumps who put even the ED Sainsbury's staff to shame I suggest paying a visit to Brixton Halfords. Utter morons.

[jimmy two times]

Wasn't it in a Sainsburys that a man was killed with one punch in a case of mistaken identity? I think I'll start using Tescos.

[womanofdulwich]

oh eater81 you have hit the nail on the head there!!

[sophiesofa]

Ann Wrote:

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> I wonder if the attempts to 'clean up the blood'

> was from staff training directed at keeping the

> public safe from blood born viruses; the most

> risky being HIV and Hepatitis B?

I don't agree with the HIV Hep B argument, but could be a case of thinking blood on the floor wasn't what shoppers want to see.

> I've no idea, I don't work in a Supermarket but I

> do find some of the criticisms a little harsh. It

> was a Sunday afternoon, there may have been many

> Weekend workers, some of whom who might well still

> be at school.

>

Very true and I think it was an innocent mistake and they were probably slightly in shock.

[Sue]

eater81 Wrote:

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> >

> The fact of the matter is that supermarket staff,

> security guards included, are and always will be a

> complete bunch of useless muppets.

> Tell ya what though, if you really wanna encounter

> a bunch of chumps who put even the ED Sainsbury's

> staff to shame I suggest paying a visit to Brixton

> Halfords. Utter morons.

xxxxxxx

Pots and kettles spring to mind here .......

[pommie]

usually the security guards working in shops like sainsburys are actually contracted from a company outside of the store which means the are nothing to do with the store itself

[Mick Mac]

Don't think that changes anything - would be interested to know what their job requirements are though - are they purely oblidged to look for shoplifters or to deal with more extreme issues such as fights in store.

[Penguin68]

Security staff at Sainsburys are employed, I would guess, to protect Sainsburys from e.g. shoplifting etc. - they are not employed as bouncers (none of them have the appropriate badges for that - you have to be licenced to be a bouncer) nor are they substitute policemen. Policemen, when they intervene in affray, have protective clothing and carry arms (not firearms, of course, but modern truncheons). They also carry an authority which store security doesn't. I doubt whether the staff at Sainsburys are either insured to, or encouraged to, participate in the sort of fight that broke out there.

Considering how many hours Sainsburys at Dog Kennel Hill is open, and how many people visit it, the incident of violent affray is very limited - so training any staff to handle this would be a very poor investment.

Sainsbury's staff are trained to keep the shop clean (the incidence of bottles and jars being smashed accidently must be very common/ a daily event), so it is not surprising that that part of the training did kick-in when the incident occurred. Preserving the scene of crime (at a time of shock and dismay) is not necesarily a 'normal' response.

Calling someone who is poorly paid 'a muppet' - presumably wholly based on their wage rate - seems extreme. I have, in the main, found the staff at Dog Kennel Hill helpful (in locating or searching for items) friendly and by no means stupid. When I compare their actions at work to those of our senior Bankers (hugely well paid with enormous bonuses) I cannot believe that muppetry and earnings are positively correlated.

[alice]

of course they have training ..theres loads of providers its called non violent crisis intervention - theres a whole hierarchy of non contact skills taught - but if push comes to shove [literally] then the intervention becomes physical -its not 'fighting' but a mixture of using safe holds to restrain ensuring those not involved are kept safe.

[Sue]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> >

> Calling someone who is poorly paid 'a muppet' -

> presumably wholly based on their wage rate - seems

> extreme. I have, in the main, found the staff at

> Dog Kennel Hill helpful (in locating or searching

> for items) friendly and by no means stupid.

xxxxxxx

I have also found the DKH staff very helpful and friendly.

They are doing a useful and important job, and just because their pay is low does not make them muppets, whatever that is supposed to imply.

Says more about the person name-calling really. Wonder how s/he would have reacted in the same situation?

[ralphation]

Bellerophon Wrote:

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> Playing Devils Whatsisname, I should imagine some

> of those staff attempting to destroy the crime

> scene knew exactly what they were doing

Actually something similar occured to me. Some of the attackers scarpered off through the exit at the back of the store behind the meat counter according to the accounts on here. Good knowledge of the store layout. Would it be beyond the realms of possibilty that they had a mate there who started cleaning straight away to destroy evidence? Of course, it is much more likely it was some innocent poor cleaner just executing orders from some dimwit manager but still...

Perhaps some of the perpetrators were familiar with the layout of the store. Perhaps they knew someone that worked there. Perhaps they worked there themselves. Perhaps you saw something. Perhaps you can help. Call East Dulwich CID. In the meantime, keep 'em peeled.

Shaw Taylor.

[Keef]

If there were a load of smashed wine bottles, it could well be that any blood was mixed in with a nice shiraz, and they didn't realise what they were mopping up.

Damned waste!

[Loz]

It was a section of white wine on special at the end of the aisle (i.e. the standard, always on special, crap stuff). Then again, Sainsbury's wine aisle is pretty uninspiring at the best of times. A nice shiraz is a rare sighting.

I agree though that the DKH staff are a pretty good bunch. The meat/fish counter people have a bad habit of finishing their chat with their mates before serving you, but apart from that they do a good job.

[Domitianus]

I think that all Sainsbury's staff, from the lowliest new recruit to the General Manager, should be trained in krav magna, sniper skills, hostage negotiation, ninja super-secret stealth skills, field surgery and advanced life support. Will that satisfy everyone?

[ruffers]

Probably not.. ;-)

[Domitianus]

ruffers Wrote:

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> Probably not.. ;-)

Of course, I should have added - Crime Scene Preservation #101!