New owners want to carry out a side extension and return - has this happened to you?

[Sue]

Azira Wrote:

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For the sake of your sanity,

> it's best to focus on those things you can

> control.

Well, I completely agree with that :)

[Siduhe]

I would echo the comments about trying to engage in a friendly and constructive way with your neighbours - you're going to be living next door to them after all this, and if things are bad from the day they move in because of what both sides have said about the building works then it can make for a tough living environment.

We recently had to have some structural work done - not an extension but noisy, dusty and generally inconvenient - we moved out of our house for almost 16 weeks, leaving our next door neighbours who had the brunt of dealing with it. It was fair to say they were also not thrilled we had to do it, but we went round to talk to them in person, we showed them plans, we fixed the date of the works to start at the least inconvenient time for them, and our builders were brilliant too - offering to wash their windows and generally keep things clean and tidy for them which helped a lot. The result is that we still share house keys and they still take parcels in for us!

So if you can talk to them about how and when they do the works to minimise the inconvenience to you, it may pay off in the long term.

[first mate]

I think the point about builders offering to tidy up properly, wash the neighbours windows, clean out guttering (which can get blocked after loads of building work) and not being too loud and shouty on site, can all help reduce the negative impact for the neighbour living next door to major building works.

[fazer71]

Interesting my 2p?s worth from personal experience of a side extension with my neighbour.

This Party Wall Business is a complete joke!

Spending ?3,000 - ?10,000 on a party wall surveyor is a hysterical waste of money usually paid to some incompetent moron. (anyone can take photos and look for cracks)

The party wall regulations / laws are the most ridiculously badly drafted bits of legislation ever produced.

Getting your neighbour to spend thousands on a ?professional? party wall surveyor is really a complete waste of money for them and for you.

You?d be better off simply asking for ? the money yourself.

and THEN

Take a load of photos of your home on the shared party walls and get your neighbour to sign and date them.

To be clear using or NOT using a party wall surveyor YOU will have exactly the same rights to repairs.. if your neighbours work creates any damage internally or externally to your property.

ie Identical, if your neighbour drilled through the wall etc etc

Side Extensions

2.4 metres is very very low

It?s so low that it?s not possible to fit kitchen wall units on that wall which is a bizarre design restriction for the planners to created we went to 3 metres.

It is so stupid and bizarre I wonder why they set it at such a height? Madness!

If you do want to build the mirror at a later date it would be far better if the wall is 2.6 metres or even better 3 metres to allow for full unobstructed internal height.

Even if you don?t want to mirror your neighbour as someone else has mentioned I would absolutely go for the shared boundary wall as it would add value if and when you do sell your home and any new owner wants to build out. The difference is only 150mm and it then becomes yours, legally your neighbour can ask you to pay ? the cost of building the shared wall you can work a deal as I did zero cost  .

As for the noise and dust that?s always an issue I agreed with my neighbour to get unrestricted access on the basis they cleaned all windows window sills etc every week whilst the works were carried out, their window cleaner did a great job.

Next year I?m going to do my side I also got a signed party wall agreement from my neighbour otherwise they could have involved me in the cost of a party wall ?leech? surveyor .

[Sue]

first mate Wrote:

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> I think the point about builders offering to tidy

> up properly, wash the neighbours windows, clean

> out guttering (which can get blocked after loads

> of building work) and not being too loud and

> shouty on site, can all help reduce the negative

> impact for the neighbour living next door to major

> building works.

And not having radios on full blast all day ....

[fazer71]

Sue Wrote:

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> first mate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> And not having radios on full blast all day ....

They have to have full volume because of the aircraft noise :)

[clockworkorange]

what London mix said.

also, they have no right to be on your land to undertake the works without permission.

get yourself a party wall surveyor and/or legal advice if you're that worried.

short term disturbance is not a reason to fall out with your long term neighbours.

suggest you get in touch with new neighbours, open a bottle of wine and make them your friends. they'll be more likely to respect your residential amenity if you're all "mates". friends close, enemies closer and all that.

[Sue]

fazer71 Wrote:

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> Sue Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > first mate Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > And not having radios on full blast all day

> ....

>

> They have to have full volume because of the

> aircraft noise :)

:))

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[first mate]

Sue, yes it is amazing how far radio noise and builder shouting travels, especially when doing loft work.

[intexasatthe moment]

Lot of useful advice on here but I know if it were grumpy old me I'd be reading the comments advising me to engage with my neighbours in a friendly way ,open a bottle of wine with them etc and thinking ...it would be nice if they were taking the iniative with the wine etc .

Perhaps they have ?

But the OP sounds perfectly reasonable ,not combatative ,and not particularly in need of being told to play nice .

"The work is going to be a nightmare for us but not much we can do about that. We are really more concerned with the height of the party wall being erected because there is only a small gap between our houses and it is going to feel very oppressive"

[Azira]

I don't think anyone has suggested she wsa combative. And, yes, it would be nice if the neighbours played nice first, but if you spend your life thinking about what other people "should" be doing rather than being constructive and proactive, you're liable to be very disappointed.

This is definitely not directed at the OP or you Tex, but it has reminded me of an observation. I've been very struck since moving to the burbs how defensive a lot of neighbourly relations seem to be. A lot of people seem to be thinking about how they are affected by things rather than thinking of how they might also affect people around them. I wonder if having that bit more space impacts people's perception of how they infringe on each other?

[fazer71]

Best advice I was given was to embrace the change and make the best of it from an architect friend.

His advice on the wall height and the rate of money on party wall surveyors was invaluable.

It took a couple of months which isn't a lifetime.

No one likes change but I want the right to build my extension so it's only fair to allow others their rights too.

Nasty neighbours who don't like their neighbours improving their homes are truly sad small brained selfish ignorant people.

Embrace the change and make it work for you.

After all the dust has settled you'll see it will either make an improvement or zero difference.

[Azira]

fazer71 Wrote:

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> Nasty neighbours who don't like their neighbours

> improving their homes are truly sad small brained

> selfish ignorant people.

Bit harsh!

[fazer71]

Azira Wrote:

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> fazer71 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Nasty neighbours who don't like their

> neighbours

> > improving their homes are truly sad small

> brained

> > selfish ignorant people.

>

> Bit harsh!

Harsh

No reality

What business is it of a neighbour if what you do to your home is within the allowances of the planning system

Double standards reign where neighbours get involved

The planning system is an ass and neighbours are too busy where other peoples homes are concerned

[first mate]

The problem with that is that planning policy may get stretched and ignored by some unscrupulous builders/neighbours. Once this happens planning are generally reluctant to apply and enforce their own policies, so in that sense at least I think it is only sensible to pay attention to what plans your neighbours have for building work and, yes, to talk to them about it, to stay positive but to be sure you protect yourself by finding out as much as you can and getting expert advice.

In my view this poster is sensibly seeking advice and trying to protect their own interests. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[fazer71]

I feel sorry for them that they are so "worried"

They don't need a party wall surveyor they need a dispute resolution expert and a good book on reality .. If they can't cope with a bit of building work next-door for a couple of months.

Maybe move to a desert island? As living in one of the worlds most densely populated mega cities isn't for everyone.

[fazer71]

Let's be clear once the building work is over it's over.

Unlike aircraft noise which will never ever stop!

[first mate]

Fazer, one man's meat as they say. As someone wrote: " the drone of flying engines is a song so wild and blue, it scrambles time and seasons if it gets through to you...."

[Penguin68]

Building a relationship with the neighbours (actually, more difficult if they are not to be resident during the work) is key - together with a clear understanding of what is to be done and a discussion of any impact that might have on you.

However one slight word of warning - a recent 'big build' on my street led to the house (never occupied by the 'owner'), at the end, being put on the market immediately the work was done - so any bridge building with the current owner was completely wasted. The build, then was all about leveraging value out of the property so that it could be sold on for a profit - ?100k of work lifted the price by ?300-?400k - that's what developers do, of course, so you do probably need, as much as you can, to find out whether you are really getting the new neighbour you think you are getting.

[soyamocha3]

Penguin68 Wrote:

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> Building a relationship with the neighbours

> (actually, more difficult if they are not to be

> resident during the work) is key - together with a

> clear understanding of what is to be done and a

> discussion of any impact that might have on you.

>

> However one slight word of warning - a recent 'big

> build' on my street led to the house (never

> occupied by the 'owner'), at the end, being put on

> the market immediately the work was done - so any

> bridge building with the current owner was

> completely wasted. The build, then was all about

> leveraging value out of the property so that it

> could be sold on for a profit - ?100k of work

> lifted the price by ?300-?400k - that's what

> developers do, of course, so you do probably need,

> as much as you can, to find out whether you are

> really getting the new neighbour you think you are

> getting.

This could well be the case.

[bonaome]

We did our loft last year. The neighbours have to register the project with the council, regardless of whether they are applying for planning permission or are working under permitted development. Likely you will get a letter from some private companies offering to act as party wall surveyors for you and advising that you do not simply go with whoever the neighbours propose. These people are ambulance chasers and are best avoided.

The neighbours have to write to the named owners of the property (you, in your case) to tell you of the proposed works. There are pro-forma letters for this which will sound a bit stiff and formal, if you know your neighbours. We have known ours for years, so I took the letters round and explained the ludicrously formal letter I was delivering.

There doesn't actually have to be a party wall agreement in place, but you have a right to insist on one. You have the right to insist on your own party wall surveyor. You name them, and the neighbours appoint and pay for them. If they want to save money, they can opt to use the surveyor you have nominated. Or they can have their own. Either way they pay all costs.

We spoke to the neighbours and agreed together that we'd just use one surveyor and we found someone recommended on the forum.

Andrew Karoly http://www.partywalls-london.co.uk/contact_us.html

He was really helpful and had loads of advice. For us he recommended a cheaper option than writing a full agreement; he did site surveys both sides, wrote a report and took loads of pictures. Neighbours both sides were happy with this, and it saved us a bit of money. The neighbours each got their own report and we got copies. We do get on well with both sets, which obviously helped, but also both are thinking of doing their own lofts at some point. We were just a loft conversion on PD though. I'm sure both you and the neighbours doing the work would be better off in your case with a full party wall agreement. It does protect them (from spurious claim) as well as you.

Whoever you use as a surveyor, it's in your interest to allow them full access to your loft spaces etc. If you refuse, and later detect damage, you'll be in a weaker position to claim it was caused by the build next door.

Hope that helps.

[Derek b]

Our neighbours are planning similar works and have asked if we would mind not having a party wall agreement to save costs. We get on really well with them and don't want to be difficult or damage our friendship. Would we be mad to agree?

[Penguin68]

Yes

[LondonMix]

No- if you put down in writing the access rules and time work can take place and get photo documentation of the full condition of your house so that you can make a claim for damages if anything occurs you'll get most of the benefit of a partywall agreement.

Make sure your neighbours builder is insured though.

Derek b Wrote:

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> Our neighbours are planning similar works and have

> asked if we would mind not having a party wall

> agreement to save costs. We get on really well

> with them and don't want to be difficult or damage

> our friendship. Would we be mad to agree?