Parts of Crawley 'becoming like Peckham'

[Louisa]

http://m.crawleynews.co.uk/Crawley-like-Peckham-result-flats/story-28883206-detail/story.html

Fascinating article about housing. Oddly, the journalist seems to think comparing Peckham to Crawley is "unflattering" on the town. I've been to Crawley, and despite all Peckham's failings I would argue it's going more going for it than this provincial airport overspill town. Discuss.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

Crawley is a horrible place on so many levels

Peckham is head and shoulders above it

I've lived in Crawley, my brother and sister still do. I've disowned them both

Great thread Louisa, not up there yet with my West Croydon cracker, but keep at it

[Louisa]

Seabag is Crawley entirely a 'new town', or does it have historic market town value? I've been there a few times and found it a little boring and pointless. In terms of social housing stock, would you say it has a similar demographic to Peckham? I just don't think it's a place anyone would choose to visit unless they were lost on the way to the airport.

Louisa.

[Seabag]

There is a very small 'old town' but not that anyone seems to give a damn

The rest is Mickey Mouse 'new town'. It's where any planners should visit before (Minster take note) considering letting Bovis, Rydon and such developers , before they have their way.

It's appallingly depressing, saved only by Tilgate lake and a fast exit point to the M27

I also think the place suffers a hopeless malaise, which I thankfully don't see in PKM

[nxjen]

There's a reason it's called Creepy Crawley

[Seabag]

Exactly

It's a shithole

[TheArtfulDogger]

isnt Crawley a part of a government experiment into inbreeding ?

Feels that wY every time I visit or it could just my imagination !

[Parkdrive]

I've noticed a few threads on EDF recently putting down other areas of London, I just wonder if the authors have stopped to consider that some may consider Peckham to be a shithole, and East Dulwich, not to their taste? I've never been to Crawley, but went to school in Peckham in the late 60's and early 70's and had a shop in Peckham for nine years. Then and now, I always thought Peckham was shite, and East Dulwich has never been to my taste. But would I really want to start a thread on the subject?

[Jeremy]

I'm sure they have Parkdrive. Everyone's welcome to their opinion.

TBH I often wonder what people must think, after reading about Peckham being the new Shoreditch/Hackney/whatever... then turn up at the station, and take in Rye Lane in all its glory. In fact, I overheard (OK, eavesdropped) some young, affluent 20-somethings discussing exactly that they other day.

[miga]

Ha! But to an extent that's just (most of real/normal) London - it's not sanitised, not even after decades of all kinds of social change. Even Chelsea has (rather better arranged) piles of plastic refuse bags on the street outside businesses stinkily awaiting collection of an evening. It ain't Geneva, that's for sure.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.. but parts of Shoreditch and Hackney look really smart these days, and I think some people roll into Peckham expecting similar levels of gentrification - and get a bit of a shock. Which is fine with me... keeps the Clapham/Hackett/Rubgy boys away.

[miga]

True. Shoreditch is becoming more and more part of the "central business district". I went up to Dalston to see a gig a couple of months ago for the first time in years and was surprised to find the streetscape much unchanged despite the new blocks of apartments etc. These things take time.

[LondonMix]

Dalston is unchanged. I was there a few weeks back and it still looks fairly shabby (that's not a criticism). I was in Shoreditch this past weekend. It was full of tourists and Spitafields felt like a suburban shopping mall. Could barely recognize Bricklane either after not going there for ages.

I haven't been to Hackney in a couple of years but I don't remember it feeling nearly as gentrified as Shoreditch back then. Things change very quickly though. Peckham has changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 I've lived in this general area.

[Mustard]

Anyone have any opinions on Walthamstow or Highams Park? The property prices there seems so much more affordable.

[Louisa]

Everything is relative. I agree previous scruffy areas such as Shoreditch and Hackney have smartened up fairly quickly in the gentrification process, but they, unlike Peckham, we're not starting from such a low base. Peckham has changed considerably in just a couple of years, markedly so compared to two whole decades previous. But it's still scruffy to the untrained gentrifying eye, simply because it's began its journey in the dark ages. Make no mistake about it, Rye Lane had literally been abandoned for decades by big chains and up to and including shortly after the 2011 riots was a no hope for gentrification. I would suggest new towns such as Crawley and Milton Keynes have entirely different demographic make up to inner London and thus may appear 'pretty' with open spaces but have a hell of a lot of social problems under the surface. Peckham appears dirty and crime ridden, and to be fair is probably much safer than its been for decades under the surface.

Louisa.

[Jeremy]

Not been to Crawley... but yeah, it's funny how some places appear superficially pleasant, but are actually pretty down-at-heel with cheap property. And others can look really scruffy, but a small house can cost over ?800K.

[miga]

It's fashion - the inner city life, or some version of it, is desirable, whereas the suburbs are seen as not only boring but d?mod?. Apparently, at some point in the past, moving out somewhere like Bromley from somewhere like Peckham or Catford was seen as social progress. We're all products of our time.

[Louisa]

The irony of that miga is that the very areas the young hip types want to go to, will not be edgy and on trend for long once they move there and kick start the gentrification process. And then the cycle goes round again. Maybe ED will become more suburban than Bromley (a kind of inside out suburbia) as the years go by?

Louisa.

[Jah Lush]

I've a couple of relations who live in Creepy Crawley and a friend who grew up there. It's not a place I've ever visited often and I couldn't possibly tell you what's it like. Unless you grew up there who would? I suspect this is another one of Lou's wind-up gentrification posts. Those flats look shit by the way. Where's next Lou, Thornton Heath, Norbury? A case of inverted snobbery I reckon.

[uncleglen]

I had a friend from there- he was clever and funny....but I knew him in Brighton

[????]

Crawley = the cure & Suede

[TheArtfulDogger]

I guess the title of this thread is the better way around as "parts of Peckham 'becoming like Crawley'" would be a far worse slur IMHO

[peckham_ryu]

Let's see how Peckham stacks up against Crawley's top 10 selling points:

http://m.crawleynews.co.uk/10-reasons-Crawley-best-place-live-world/story-26090503-detail/story.html

1 - "You don't have to choose between the city and the countryside." That's nothing, Crawlers. Not only can we get fresh air, city views and beer all in the one car park here, we can even pop downstairs for the authentic smell of the seaside. You lose!

2 - World Champion Marbles hosts for 82 years. We salute you (with thumb and forefinger held to forehead in an "L" shape).

3 - "It's got everything you could ever need." We've got two words for you: Khan's Bargains.

4 - "No-one ever gets shot." Er, moving on?

5 - Needy homeless people travel miles for the generosity of the Three Bridges free shelter. That's totally commendable. Apparently though it doesn't matter how needy you are, you will still draw the line at admitting you're in Crawley.

"Where have you been then Frankie?"

"Oh, er Three Bridges actually?"

Meanwhile in SE15, thankfully it's still really only estate agents who make up guff like "Bellenden Village". The rest of us don't disguise our address.

6 - "You don't need to leave the town to see the world". Yes, you do. Having a neighbour from abroad doesn't count, even if you do get to smugly say "Chagossian" while we all pretend to know what it means.

7 - "You can get almost anywhere in the country in next to no time". Okay okay don't rub it in. We know the roads are bloody awful here. As for rail, don't search this forum for "trains" unless you really like crashing your computer.

8 - "Two of the best leisure centres in the country". You had us at "Ultimate Frisbee indoor regionals". (See number 2 above.)

9 - "You won't find many places where the residents will defend their town more passionately". Oh yeah? Come here and say that!

10 - Holidays: "We?ve all had that moment when we?ve looked out the window of the plane as it?s coming in to land at Gatwick and let out a sigh that we?re back in Crawley." Oh you poor lambs. Come on, bring your Frisbee over and have a picnic on the Rye. The marbles will still be there when you get back home x

[DulwichFox]

http://everydayeconomies.net/sites/default/files/Rye%20Lane%20Full%20view.JPG

Peckham..

http://www.crawleynews.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/275781/Article/images/19870065/5351875-large.jpg

Crawley..

Yes I can see the similarity..

DulwichFox

[Mick Mac]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah.. but parts of Shoreditch and Hackney look

> really smart these days, and I think some people

> roll into Peckham expecting similar levels of

> gentrification - and get a bit of a shock. Which

> is fine with me... keeps the Clapham/Hackett/Rubgy

> boys away.

You weren't in tbe Rye on Saturday afternoon in that case. Plenty of wannabee rugger buggers.