Anyone else's baby NOT sleeping through the night yet?

[gillandjoe]

Hello there,

I am the mother of a beautiful, healthy six month old boy who is absolutely thriving. Its not him I'm worried about, it's me! I am completely exhausted with night feedings which sometimes go up to 5 or 6 times or until I've stopped counting! I am breastfeeding on demand and have no other issues apart from when will he learn to sleep through the night?! My partner and I moved him into his own room last week and it seemed like we were getting somewhere until last night when our baby demanded my breast every hour and a half the whole night through. I've read a lot about it and don't want to cry it out, and I'm not even particularly interested in any more advice - I believe that he will learn to sleep through when he's ready. I am just feeling very alone in this situation as all the other mums I know have had excellent little sleepers, and would like to know if anyone else is going through or has gone through a similar thing? How do you survive the exhaustion (at this point I don't feel I can get through it) and is it my fault?!!

Thanks

[Strawbs]

23 weeks here so just shy of 6 months and not sleeping through! Anywhere from 2-7 wake ups a night! You are definitely not alone x

[Mathilda]

My baby was still having a few night feeds at this age and I found it challenging! Imo its way more exhausting at this age because instead of spending your day on the sofa/in coffee shops/mum & baby cinema etc, the baby needs more entertainment and starting to get mobile. Anyway...I decided to cut night feeds at around 7 months, was confident they weren't needed, didn't leave to cry, picked up and held just delayed each feed. If you want to carry on, not sure what to advise but things that helped me were a strong coffee and some cake/chocolate at around 5pm to keep me going through to bedtime, trying to be in for one naptime in the day so I could nap too, and taking up all offers of help!

[Fuschia]

I think despite the unrealistic expectations engendered by the baby industry it's absolutely normal for an infant human. Mine all woke several times over night well past that age. Cosleeping had always saved the day, here.

If you do want to gradually discourage night feeding, (and I think that's more realistic at 1+) then ssh pat etc is the way to go ... Delaying and shortening feeds or having your partner comfort the baby in your place

[mima08]

hmmm - we are 14 months on and sleeping through is still a hit& miss. If it's not growth spurts (feeding like a horse), it's a variety of coughs and colds making sleeping difficult.... Sharing the getting up with husband and taking the odd night in the spare room to get some real sleep....obviously more difficult while breastfeeding....hope it gets better soon (for you & us ;-))

[Fuschia]

Coming in to light sleep every hour or so is a feature of the infant brain, and gradually shifts to a more adult pattern by age 2-3 I think

[Pickle]

Does the baby feed a lot during daytime hours too? If not so much maybe try offering when he's not demanding it to see if he'll take some extra milk during the day?

[Dudley]

Hi,

I am not an expert on sleep but I just want to offer some reassurance that not all babies sleep through the night.

I have a 2.5 year old and she still wakes up frequently. I do think breastfeeding means they are less likely to sleep through.

I say this as very pro-breastfeeding. I feed my daughter until she was 2, and really although she started off in her own bed from about 8 months, she co-slept from about 10pm onwards. I certainly don't want to encourage you not to breastfeed on demand (as this is what I did) but I think if you do then I think it is easier just to co-sleep.

Why are you not co-sleeping? Getting up and out of bed to breastfeed is a bit of nightmare IMO. As I said you could start him off in his own bed and then bring him in later. At least that way when you want to night wean him you only have to consider how to stop him coming in as opposed to starting him off on a bed time routine.

I know some people find it difficult to co-sleep, (perhaps he is too big now, or your partner wanted the move?) It is a very individual decision.

Anyway, this may not have been that helpful, but I just wanted to say that alot of babies don't sleep through, in particular if you are breastfeeding on demand. If you want to continue I do think it is easier just to co-sleep.

Breastfeeding is great, but it is demanding, especially past 6 months. They know what they want now and can be demanding!!

Who wants to be on their own in a cold cot when they can be beside mummy, snuggling and snacking at the all-night-coffee shop. I know where I would want to be!! As I said, I think it is worth it but do bear this is mind. Good luck!

[Saffron]

Fuschia Wrote:

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> I think despite the unrealistic expectations

> engendered by the baby industry it's absolutely

> normal for an infant human.

Agreed it's totally normal, and some elements of the baby industry do seem to thrive on misconceptions!

[snowboarder]

'Sleeping through' at 6m? Does this happen?!?

Neither of mine did. The thing that helped both of my boys with sleep was trying to not (breast) feed to sleep...easier said than done, but for us breaking that association was the thing that made the most difference...

(nb - am not saying don't feed at night, just try not to use the boob as way to settle...)

[Saffron]

Recalling between 5-7 months, Little Saff's sleep was the worst, waking 5-6x nightly. I got really fed up with people offering me unsolicited advice, and particularly pissed off with people telling me that I HAD to do cc/cio, as if there are no other types of sleep help available! This on occasion from my own husband as well, bless 'im (and he wasn't even the one getting up in the night!).

I don't think that normal sleep behaviour should ever be something that we seek too deeply to "fault". It's not anyone's fault that some babies wake more than others. I think one-size-fits-all advice isn't very useful, and it's probably best to seek individualised advice from an expert with an ethos that you like. In the end I used a "fade" approach with night time bottles, and a little shush-patting (but we still b/feed at night some times). It got us from 5x wakings down to just 1-2 wakings, which is where we still are at 2 years old. It's very, very tough, and very lonely sometimes. I have great sympathy for anyone with a difficult sleeper. I believe some babies (like some adults) just have a different sleep rhythm from others. I'm not a great sleeper, so the nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

My oldest sibling (totally breastfed) was sleeping through from about 12 wks. Me? Still waking at 5-6 years old and older. Oh, and it's no surprise then that I was the last child!

Hope things get better for you soon. Whatever decision you make, you're definitely not alone. And, yes, your LO is totally (exhaustingly!) normal. xx

[Lindsey<3]

My little girls exactly the same. I try not to feed her to sleep when she does wake diring the night but its the only way I can seem to settle her so I gather she must be hungry. I done exclusive breastfeed for 6months so I've only just really begun the weaning process so maybe I'm thinking (hoping) that when she's fully weaned she may sleep for longer at night *fingers crossed* :)

You are sooooo not alone though hun!!! All of my friends babys are excellent sleepers and nappers and I sometimes feel as if its just me too :( xxx

[Fuschia]

http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-patterns.html

[gillandjoe]

Thank you all for your posts - it feels better to know that i'm not alone! However hearing that Joe might still be waking frequently in two years time is slightly terrifying! How do you cope?!

We were co-sleeping until last week because it wasnt't working out brilliantly anymore. My partner was in the spare room so much it was like we had separate bedrooms and Joe seemed to be feeding more and more frequently for little snacks. He is also a kicker that would quite often have me in a state of wakefulness for most of the night! Alas, breastfeeding sitting up and out of bed is almost as bad!

I guess I do still nurse to sleep which probably doesn't help but I am so reliant on that as a calming tool that I don't want to let it go.

Is it just that being a mum means always being tired?!

[hanstands]

Another Mum with two non-sleepers here, my youngest is six months. Neither slept/sleeps through the night, both had/have multiple wake ups every night, its SOOOO normal. I co-sleep and breastfeed wee one through the night, we have a kingsize bed and this works for us. Hubby gets up with them in the morn so I get a little lie in...[he's a morning person, I'm an evening and I know not all Dads can afford the time to do this if they start work early or have a commute].

Its hard to think of this now but it really is a short time of their and your life and soon they'll be off and in school and much more independent of you. This is such a good time to fill them up with closeness, love, cuddles and yummy milk [if you can, it doesn't suit everyone of course!]. The tiredness is not at all easy but doesn't last forever, it is a time of adjustment for the Mum and if you search hard and try different ways of dealing with it it can improve...early nights, daytime naps, begging for family/friends' assistance as mentioned above etc. I've a load of other Mum friends in the same boat...you're certainly not alone.

[Belle]

My little one is a bit over six months and nowhere near sleeping through - did get one amazing night but he was teasing us I think! the trouble in our case is that it is not hunger that's waking him, it's either reflux or the legacy of when it was particularly painful, and there's no quick fix to settle him. Sometimes it's every 40-60 minutes and I am beyond exhausted, and have certainly (and unashamedly) tried a very soft/gentle form of sleep training (sort of shush pat but v brief and leaving for up to 5 mins to cry) as I felt the problem was getting worse by me going in to see him the minute I heard him. You're def not alone. Ironically, my first was a pretty good sleeper in the first year or so (did a dream feed of sorts at 11 and would then go through till 6ish from 12 weeks on) and I always tried to keep quiet about that as a lot of my peers had babies who were not sleeping well at all. As such, it really annoys me when people overshare about their great sleepers! Seriously , can't they lie/play it down for us??!

I do get all the theory behind sleep patterns etc, and I think if it's a straightforward matter of doing several nightfeeds, that's one thing. But I think if you have lived through really horrendous sleep you can appreciate that it's not something everyone can cope with! I personally found co-sleeping didn't help - do it occasionally at 5am but if he wakes earlier than that he will be just as disturbed in with us. Though again, if it was purely a feeding thing I can see this would be a practical approach.

REalise none of this particularly helpful except to show sympathy really. I find lack of sleep turns me into a complete monster, and a good rest cannot be underrated. Hope you manage to get some soon.

[Mens]

Personally I think it's a habit and I wish there was a kind way to break it.

My first baby had a bottle at 11pm from 6mths and slept through the night. I don't think it was because she was full but because it wasn't as much fun waking up for a bottle. (I gave her a bottle because she was losing weight but still bf during the day)

My next two refused bottles so I spent 2 plus years feeding my second all night long and my 9mth old appears to be heading the same way. IMO they don't need it.....it's just that we can't find a kind way to show them that.

[crystal7]

In my experience it is completely normal. My daughter slept through the night for the first time at 15 months and even now at 3 she goes through periods of night waking due to illness or nightmares. Between about 4 and 11 months she woke up 3x per night for a quick feed. Once I went back to work I started bringing her into our bed instead of feeding her (gradually 1 feed at a time) and by 13 months or so she was waking once a night but co tsleeping from about 12. I know some people don't like co sleeping and some babies don't settle in the big bed but it always worked for us. My son is nearly 6 months and is worse, anything up to 5 wake ups per night. Mostly 3, 2 is an excellent night! I just assume that his sleep will e eventually get better. He has a consistent bedtime routine and generally goes down ok. Maybe I'm deluded?! Helps that my expectations were low this time! I know of worse sleepers and I would never criticize anyone for sleep training it's not something I want to do. Most sleep training seems to focus on eliminating night feeds which I don't feel he's ready for anyway plus I'm no good with crying. I find it quite irritating when peoiple tell me that's what I need to do though I know they mean well. My plan is to try and get baby off boob before fast asleep and to spend at least some of the night in his cot. Ha. All gone wrong this week as he's got a nasty cough. Good luck, a friend once said that only you'll know when its time to do something about your baby's sleep..Some nights I do quietly despair that I'm doing it ALL WRONG urgh...

[Saffron]

Fuschia Wrote:

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> http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-pattern

> s.html

For anyone not having time to read the whole article (b/c you're just too shattered from lack of sleep -- I know the feeling!), here is an excerpt I found most applicable:

Sleeping through the night?

If you consider that baby sleep patterns are characterized by short, 50-60 minute sleep cycles, you may wonder how it?s possible for babies to ?sleep through the night.?

The answer is that ?sleeping through the night? is a myth.

A variety of anthropological, historical, and clinical evidence suggests that adults are not designed to sleep through the night. Let alone babies.

With their short sleep cycles, babies experience more opportunities for arousal. And they have smaller stomachs, which means they need to eat more frequently than adults do.

So when some parents boast that their baby is sleeping through the night, what they?re really saying is that they are not aware of their baby?s night-time arousals. Their baby, in other words, doesn?t make enough noise to awaken them.

How long does this blessed state last? Depending on the age of the baby, maybe no more than 5 hours (e.g., Pinilla and Birch 1993).

Where and how babies fall asleep: cross-cultural baby sleep patterns

Many Western baby ?sleep trainers? warn parents against letting their babies fall asleep at the breast or in their parents? arms. They also warn against rocking or singing babies to sleep. Babies, the sleep trainers argue, must learn to fall asleep alone. They should be trained to ?self-soothe,? even if this means babies cry themselves to sleep.

There are limits to these recommendations. For instance, sleep scientists warn that the ?cry it out? approach must be carefully monitored and should not be attempted on infants less than 6 months of age (France and Blampied 1999; Owens et al 1999). But in general, the sleep trainers believe that parents should encourage babies to fall asleep by themselves.

From an anthropological standpoint, this is a peculiar notion. Throughout human evolution, babies have fallen asleep while they nursed. They have fallen asleep while they were held or carried?often in the midst of the daily bustle. And they have fallen asleep lying in bed next to their mothers.

Consider this sample of traditional baby sleep patterns:

? From Africa to the Arctic to the Americas, modern-day hunter-gatherers keep their babies in close, physical contact throughout the day, and mothers typically sleep with them at night. Babies frequently fall asleep while breastfeeding and experiencing skin-to-skin contact (Konner 2005).

? In Bali, babies sleep with their mothers until age three. During the day, they are carried in slings as their mothers go about their daily work. Babies may fall asleep in the sling, and, if mothers must put their babies down, they are encouraged to give them to someone else to hold (Diener 2000).

? Among the Beng, village farmers living in the Cote D?Ivoire, babies spend their days on someone?s back?either the mother or a designated baby carrier. Carrying a baby in this way is considered a good way to get babies to fall asleep (Gottlieb 2000).

? In Japan, family members have traditionally slept in the same room, and many babies sleep in their parents? beds (Fukumizu et al 2005). Where babies sleep in their own beds, parents often lie with babies until they fall asleep (Moore et al 1957).

...{see article for more examples}

[Saffron]

gillandjoe Wrote:

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> Thank you all for your posts - it feels better to

> know that i'm not alone! However hearing that Joe

> might still be waking frequently in two years time

> is slightly terrifying! How do you cope?!

Honestly, I don't know. There's just an element of getting on with it, part of being a mother I guess?

To make matters worse when Little Saff was ~1 yo, she was already tall enough to start trying to climb out of the cotbed. We could have lowered the mattress another 6 inches, but then I wouldn't have been able to lift her out b/c of a chronic back problem I have.

We tried taking the side off the cotbed, but it really wasn't all that helpful for either her or me. Around 13/14 mos, we bought a small double fouton for her room and sold the cotbed. I mostly sleep with her in her room. She sleeps well this way, and I can sleep too.

Once or twice a week I try to sleep in my own bed with Hubbie, but it generally results in a 2AM wake-up call: Little tearful face appears in our doorway, holding blanket and teddy, saying, "Mummy, come back? I can't find mummy!" So it's back to her bed, for her and me both. All the "classic" type sleep training methods that invovle a lot of crying would mean a lot of sleep loss for me too. I can't afford to have flat out sleep loss b/c of other health problems. Also, anything that causes crying at bedtime or during the night, has had horrible knock-on effects on my daughter's daytime behaviour. That speaks volumes to me about bad sleep associations.

B/c I'm a SAHM at the moment, with only one child, I'm happy to let her sleep progress at her own pace, within reason. Of course that doesn't stop me from wishing it were different! I'm hoping to go back to work soon. We might have to change our strategy then. We'll have another crack at some gentle sleep strategies, or have Daddy take over the nightshift.

You may not think you can cope, but you will! Remind yourself of all the things at which your baby is brilliant, and hang in there. xx

[gillandjoe]

I have to say I think you are all superwomen! 6 months has been hard enough, it is so amazing that you stay positive and loving with years of sleep deprivation clocking up. I hope I am that strong!

Recently, I have started to get inundated with 'he isnt't sleeping through yet?!' comments and all sorts of old wives tale type advice. On a recent holiday I was told by mother in law that I would need to toughen up if I wanted to get Joe sleeping through. I'm not against CIO methods but it just isn't me or my partner. Last night we listened to all of 5 minutes of crying before we gave in and co-slept! We have put a single mattress in his room now so I can crash in there if its rough. I guess its a case of accepting our lot and getting on with it. Thank you so much for letting me know my baby isn't wierd and that lots of parents go through this. Needless to say, baby no.2 is on hold until I can get 8hrs uninterrupted sleep!!

[Ruth_Baldock]

You are not alone! 8mo old and 2yr4mo old, neither sleep through. Happy days! But , one day, they will...

[reneet]

8 Month Old never sleeps through and 4yr old has also started waking up. You basically get used to it and value the precious moments you actually get to sleep. I am absolutely anal about the time I go to sleep.

[Saffron]

I think every mother has a bit of "super woman" somewhere (Ruth has A LOT!!).

It can be hard to stay upbeat. I have days where I despair. Occasionally I even have a tiny moan, but I really try never truly to complain about my daughter's sleep, b/c she is amazing in so many other ways.

It's swings and roundabouts. No child does everything perfectly. Belle's humourous point above it being really annoying when people "overshare" about how well their children sleep, is certainly applicable to all aspects of child development. People who have struggled with eg their child's speech or health etc probably don't want to hear ad nauseam about how healthy or talkative etc someone else's child is.

I guess the exception is maybe when you can laugh about it with good friends. Little Saff has slept through about 6 times in 2+ years, but hardly ever has more than a sniffle. Whereas, my friend's toddler --same age as Little Saff-- has been rather sickly with colds, ears/chest infection almost every other month, BUT she has been sleeping 10-12hrs nightly from 8 WKS OLD. Arrrgh. Swings and roundabouts.

[Saffron]

This is an interesting article on sleep from the Journal of Sleep Medicine Reviews Oct 2011, 15(5), p327:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21295501

A excerpt from the abstract...

Despite parent's anxieties, and the potential (though little studied) stress to the infant, the pursuit of [behavioural extinction] sleep treatments are advocated by many psychologists and clinicians as acceptable and necessary interventions. This paper questions this necessity and critically reviews and debates these methods from biological, anthropological and cultural perspectives. Specifically, it considers Foucaultian, Leidloffian, attachment and behavioural perspectives. The central debate in this paper is if and why an infant's nocturnal cries should be ignored. It challenges the aetiology and acceptance of the status quo in the hope of revisiting the underlying belief that these methods are necessary. In doing so, the paper theorises the ways in which current sleep training techniques do or do not satisfy the needs of infants and their parents and questions the extent to which they can be reconciled.

If you don't have access to the full-text pdf, please PM me. I have a copy to share for personal use.