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messageChange to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 15 May, 2018 13:39

Hello,

As ever I know people will have different opinions about this ( ! ) but for anyone else who feels the balance between retail and restaurants is tipping too far in the direction of restaurants, the planning application to turn the old Londis into a restaurant closes on the 18th May. It's a really key retail site and it's hard to see why we need another restaurant..

[planning.southwark.gov.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:05:15:13:42:10 by madger.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by notiti 15 May, 2018 13:44

More to the point, it's hard to see why we need a Pizza Express in the building when there are already two chain pizza places on the High Street...

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by mikeb 15 May, 2018 14:53

The applicant PNAM Limited does not appear on Companies House website or on the internet except in connection with a couple of other planning applications.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 15 May, 2018 14:54

Where on the application does it say its going to be a Pizza Express?

If thatís the case Iíve never heard of anything more ridiculous in all my years. Turning a useable 24 hour shop into yet another pizzza based restaurant. The area is saturated with the bloody things.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by rahrahrah 15 May, 2018 14:56

I can't believe that Pizza Express would do well in that location. There are so many better pizza joints nearby (and also a PE in the Village).

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 15 May, 2018 15:06

The pizza express bit is the word amongst a few local shop owners, not confirmed but apparently very likely.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by rahrahrah 15 May, 2018 15:11

There are chains which could work there, but not a PE.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by louisemurray 15 May, 2018 15:15

I asked behind the counter ages ago - she said Costa Coffee

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 15 May, 2018 15:55

Apparently it will be both, with premises extended behind...

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Penguin68 15 May, 2018 16:40

If Pizza Express was to open this would cannibalise their restaurant in The Village - which is larger (2 floors) - I would guess once cooking and storage areas are taken into account. And lavatories. It's often quite full so I can't see them voluntarily downsizing. Maybe they are losing this site? - but if not it doesn't make sense to move into an area already well served for pizza - and where the passing clientele may not match the target market (families with young children but not babies) - I am not sure the joint in The Village is so full so regularly that they are needing an overflow.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by NewWave 15 May, 2018 17:15

another bloody Pizza resturant??
what a joke!

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by FightingFit 15 May, 2018 17:28

How utterly depressing

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 15 May, 2018 17:31

If youíre going to put a chain restaurant in this space, how about a Las Iguanas with a nice cocktail bar, or a CŲte Brasserie with a decent wine list? God knows why Pizza Express would even entertain this space.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 15 May, 2018 17:47

Good choice Louisa!

I'd back that. Pizza Express/ Nandos/ Costa are SO depressing. Are we that mindless?

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Ghlpc 15 May, 2018 19:16

Sorry, are we saying that Lorship Lane is too good for a Pizza Express?

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 15 May, 2018 20:01

what do you mean 'too good'?
I think it's about variety and opportunity to have something exciting. Another chain is a bit like getting socks for Christmas.

The icing on the cake would be a Starbucks/ McDonald's/ Pret a Manger/ Top Shop/ another estate agent/ another indian/ another pizza place.....

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by EDPineapple 15 May, 2018 22:16

I agree with earlier posts entirely, there are already plenty of pizza restaurants in the area. However I believe one upshot of a Pizza Express (vs a Nando's or Costa Coffee for example) is that they don't seem to have the same impact on their surrounding area when it comes to litter.

I was under the impression that there is something in place to try and limit the number of nationwide chains vs smaller independents on LL, is there any truth to that or have I just imagined it?

Having said this, the Londis plot is prob too big for anything but the larger chains, and Londis was itself a nationwide chain so it's a difficult argument to make in this case.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jakido 15 May, 2018 22:20

Maybe a Wimpy would do well; balloons.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by ED Light 15 May, 2018 22:39

Iíd take wahaca (or similar) or a decent chinese (whose sauces can not be used as adhesive) any day of the week

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by DulwichFox 15 May, 2018 22:42

I like Wimpy. There are not many left .. Locally Ö ??

There is one in Bermondsey.. You still get a proper plate and metal cutlery

and there is Salt, Vinegar, Ketchup and paper napkins on every Table.

Also waiter service.

A far cry from McDonalds.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by uncleglen 15 May, 2018 22:56

mikeb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The applicant PNAM Limited does not appear on
> Companies House website or on the internet except
> in connection with a couple of other planning
> applications.
The PE chain was bought by a Chinese company called Hony
What we REALLY need is a decent chippy.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Ghlpc 16 May, 2018 07:19

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what do you mean 'too good'?
> I think it's about variety and opportunity to have
> something exciting. Another chain is a bit like
> getting socks for Christmas.
>
> The icing on the cake would be a Starbucks/
> McDonald's/ Pret a Manger/ Top Shop/ another
> estate agent/ another indian/ another pizza
> place.....

You can never have too many socks...

No seriously I do think the site is a bit small for a Pizza Express, if indeed these rumours are true, but they must have done their research on the place and think it a viable option.

I think it's good to have competition between similar food type restaurants...it's keeps them on their toes and maintains standards.

I like Pizza Express. You know what your getting, you can get some great discount vouchers almost all the time which makes it an affordable place to eat, especially for the family.

Anyway a few of the business you mentioned above did start off as independents once upon a time...

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by EDBoost 16 May, 2018 09:16

So many people here moaning about Pizza Express coming, but i bet, if it did open where Londis was, they would be there on a regular.

I for one, wouldn't mind having a Pizza Express on the Lane, there pizza's are great and a good place to eat in.

So what if we have 2 other pizza places on the lane? (3 if you include Pizza GoGo). It's good to have a choice/variety and I personally go to all three depending on what i fancy.

All those who moan about "i want this, i want that" on the lane, acting like a spoilt brat who's allowance has been cut from 5k a month to only 2k ;)

Be happy with what you have, Lordship lane has eveloved over the years and will continue. Yes its nice to have difference kinds of shops/restuarants on the Lane, but its not that easy/practical.

Business on the lane is difficult atm (with rent & rates going stupidly high, I for one, will be happy just to have another shop open so I have another place I can visit and try out.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 16 May, 2018 09:53

Herne Hill and the village presumably are too far to trek for a pizza?

It's the lack of variety that is disappointing and actually turns a nice areas into a mainstream boring area.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 16 May, 2018 10:02

I think the sad thing is that once landlords push all their rents up to amounts that only really big chains backed by corporate hedge funds can afford, then no-one can afford to have a small local business. Even successful Ďmicro chainsí which were born from a real passion canít afford rents at those levels. I like variety, I like balance, but itís a shame greed has such a detrimental impact on local business people with good ideas. If anything, these chains are the product of gentrification. The Lane has always been full of local businesses and if that now changes because big investors want to make a quick buck, we will lose diversity. Chains are a bit like Japanese knotweed; pretty and innocuous looking, but ruthlessly suppressing all other growth.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 16 May, 2018 10:53

I see this is your first post on the forum, ED Boost! And extremely fond of pizza express, it seems?! 😉. Well, vested interest or no, I absolutely agree with your point about rents being so high. Which is why a pizza express, one of the few chains still able to afford sky high rents (unlike Jamieís etc which have been closing branches) will lead to neighbouring rent rises and obliteration of the lovely long term traders on the Lane, except the ones who own their Freehold. That seems a shame. Change and progress are different entities. A proliferation of chains leads to exponential increase in rents, leads to failure of local businesses, leads to the same boom/bust cycle in commercial property portfolios happening all over the country, reflected in homogenous high streets, or empty ones. Thatís why when Sugar closed on the roundabout, itís being replaced by another charity shop. I get stuff from charity shops, and itís great that those worthy causes are receiving income from them, but iím sad to see it wasnít taken on as a shop paying staff wages and offering something different. And we now have so many of them. So whether this economic micro climate of heated growth is progress, or simply change, is based, I suppose, on whether you prefer to see holistic sustainable growth in an area over the long term, or a sudden explosion of inflated rents and City backed business ventures with a focus on investor dividends.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 16 May, 2018 11:00

The one positive I would take from this is that Pizza Express has not yet confirmed or denied the occupation of this space. Chain restaurants at affordable prices arenít always a bad thing. But when a a place is saturated with the same type of offering already, it seems a pointless exercise adding to that. The one in the village is perfectly nice if you enjoy their offering, and isnít so busy that it requires another branch so near.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by JohnL 16 May, 2018 11:05

The new bike shop under Co-Operative House, Rye Lane seems to have a Cafe section when I poked my nose in (opens 21st). The Bike Cafe - sounds like a hipster joint smiling smiley

Dual use seems to be the thing this year.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Mick Mac 16 May, 2018 11:36

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Pizza Express was to open this would
> cannibalise their restaurant in The Village -

Noone ever crosses the SE21/SE22 border, surely

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 16 May, 2018 11:56

I totally agree chains arenít always bad news, not at all. They can offer really good value. I donít necessarily think pizza expressís pizzas (they vary their prices according to location) do offer better value compared to Olivelliís (a Ďmicroí chain) or Il Mirto or even Franca Manca, which is perhaps so successful because it does a pizza for about £8. Which is great! Pizza Express generally charges between £11.50 and £14 for a pizza in Dulwich Village which is not as affordable. If a place is born out of real passion for food I donít mind paying more on occasion, if iím able, but I do baulk at paying on average £13 for a pizza from a restaurant which functions primarily as a corporate investment tool and drives up surrounding rents. So while PE markets itself as an affordable neighbourhood eatery, in reality itís not particularly affordable, in relative terms, and has a palpably negative impact on local businesses, which I think is a sad combination.

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