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messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Aliborg 25 March, 2012 13:44

[www.legislation.gov.uk]

This should be done

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by bonniebird 25 March, 2012 13:44

What Huggers said thumbs up get the dog licence back, with the revinue from that, employ dog trainers and dog wardens who actually like and understand dogs, not just a bod, stop these idiots (back yard breeders) who know NOTHING about breeding dogs from exploiting there pets by making money, all dogs microchipped, banned dogs all neutered, muzzled and chipped and someone to enforce those rules, the Pitbull should then die out. If a pregnant Pitbull bitch is taken into rescue or seized from her owners, she is allowed to give birth to her pups, she is allowed to rear them to about 8 weeks old, then they are taken away from her and euthanised, she if she is lucky may be re homed although I think that maybe against the law. I once saw a photo of 9 perfect little fat Pit pups laying on a vet table in a row in the same position all dead because of scum wanting money, it is against the law to re home a Pitbull in this country. Innocent little pups dying, not a chance of a life what a waste, so think before you breed, pop to Battersea and see how many Bullbreeds are in there and wonder why they aren't taking anymore in, this isn't aimed at anyone on here, just saying is all...............

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by tibby 25 March, 2012 13:56

sorry to hear about your dog but i must say the warden who is very rarely in peckham rye the chap on bike is usless he rides around park on the bike doing nothing so waste of time reporting it to him

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by ianr 25 March, 2012 14:35

Aliborg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.legislation.gov.uk]
>
> This should be done

Section 3(5) of the same Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 confirms:

(5)It is hereby declared for the avoidance of doubt that an order under section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871 (order on complaint that dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control)—
(a)may be made whether or not the dog is shown to have injured any person; and
(b)may specify the measures to be taken for keeping the dog under proper control, whether by muzzling, keeping on a lead, excluding it from specified places or otherwise.

I've not seen anything suggesting that a complaint to magistrates under the Dogs Act 1871 (as mentioned above on p2) can't be made by a lay person; though it would be very advisable to get good advice as to evidence and procedure if thinking of doing so. Would the RSPCA be willing to help? That Act also gives the court power to order destruction.

Defra have some useful information sources on the law at [www.defra.gov.uk].

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by first mate 25 March, 2012 15:17

Specialist advice on the law can be sought at Trevor Cooper [www.doglaw.co.uk]

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by psych 25 March, 2012 15:50

I have a toddler who loves running about in this park its worrying that there are dangerous dogs around like this

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by ClareC 25 March, 2012 17:59

I have a baby and a toddler and am about to rescue a dog, maybe even two. I've been looking at the dogs looking for homes on the web and it's heartbreaking! The people that breed dogs to make a quick buck are despicable. The suffering they cause is shocking.

This is such a sad and awful thing to have happened, I am so sorry for your loss.

Im glad you clarified what happened, it clearly was the owbers fault and there is nothing to indicate this dog is dangerous to people. That said, it should be muzzled and the owner held accountable!

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by iceicebaby 25 March, 2012 20:57

So sorry to hear about this.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 00:09

Thanks again everyone for contributing and reading this thread. I shall be seeing Morph's mum tomorrow morning and will help her to read your posts again.

I shall also be visiting Mark Newell, the park ranger, and the neighbourhood vet centre and discussing matters with Morph's mum.

Civil legal redress may be available in principle, but neither Morph's mum nor I can afford legal fees, so that, unless there is a pro bono legal angel reading this, is very unlikely to be feasible - which I have to say, seems very, very unfair. She still has a bill of £300 or so to pay to the Vet Centre for the emergency care they gave Morph on Friday immediately after the attack, which of course, has to be a priority.

She is heartbroken - and, without encouraging vigilante type behaviour - I would ask any dog walkers (or anyone interested, actually) to let this irresponsible dog owner know of the horrifying consequence of his dog's action, if they should see him in the park. Obviously, I don't want anyone to get into any sticky situations or to put themselves at risk of any sort - but I do want him found - because I think he should at the very least, refund my friend for the costs his dog's actions have incurred.

Morph's mum was already planning to get another dog as company for Morph, and she is now looking in earnest for a new dog (NOT a replacement for our little darling friend). She is looking for a male labrador - so if any of you know of one looking for the most loving home, where he would receive 24 hour love, affection and company, with at least two walks a day with devoted walkers, then please contact me via PM. She is very experienced with dogs - this is the first time in 18 years that she has not had a dog, and she is very experienced at training them and teaching them good manners and behaviour. All of her dogs have been an absolute delight to everyone who has met them - including my daughter who was absolutely terrified of dogs before she met Morph and his friend Croi who was an enormous black long haired German Shepherd. Thanks to Dara's calm, loving dogs, my daughter has learned to love dogs - and I never thought that would happen!

If any of you reading this were witnesses to the attack on Morph, I should be very grateful if you would contact me via PM, too.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Renata Hamvas 26 March, 2012 09:55

Hi Fuzzyboots,
I am truly sorry to hear about the vicious attack and death of Morpsad smileyh.
Please do report it to Mark Newell and to the police.

Renata

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 09:58

Good news everyone - Mark has found the owner of Blue and has his contact details. Mark says the man is very shocked and wants to apologise directly to Dara, which is positive. He is also getting a muzzle for Blue.

I've also received a couple of really helpful pointers in terms of rescue dogs/rescue centres who might have Dara's next forever dog - thanks so much. There are a few beautiful and likely looking characters - so please cross everything folks!

Trish/FB

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Gidget 26 March, 2012 09:58

deborah.bruce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my friends dog was attacked about 2 weeks ago on
> Peckham Rye by a dog with an owner exactly fitting
> these descriptions. Her dog was very traumatised
> and had a stroke the following day. My friend
> reported the attack to the park warden and the
> police.

Did your friend's dog die? What happened after this was reported? You must follow it up.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Gidget 26 March, 2012 10:01

Huggers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in addtion to what First Mate says, when I went to
> dog training with Robert-off-dog-borstal who did
> classes in New Cross, he discouraged any 'play
> fighting' between dogs when young as he believed
> it gave dogs fewer inhibitions re aggression and
> then play could trigger a reflex aggression when
> they were older in a play situation.

All dogs need to learn bite inhibition so this is not necessarily a good thing.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Gidget 26 March, 2012 10:03

fuzzyboots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good news everyone - Mark has found the owner of
> Blue and has his contact details. Mark says the
> man is very shocked and wants to apologise
> directly to Dara, which is positive. He is also
> getting a muzzle for Blue.
>
> I've also received a couple of really helpful
> pointers in terms of rescue dogs/rescue centres
> who might have Dara's next forever dog - thanks so
> much. There are a few beautiful and likely
> looking characters - so please cross everything
> folks!
>
> Trish/FB

If I were this man I would be totally freaked out and getting legal advice. It really sounds like this dog has caused lots of damage previously based on reports on here and he is now playing a bit dumb.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 10:12

Yes Gidget, you could well be right about the owner. I'm afraid I tend to take things very much at face value, so I find it hard to discern when people's motives are other than genuine!

Just passed on the news to Dara about Blue's owner and the websites with the lovely dogs and am popping over to her shortly. I have fallen in love with one of them already - who needs lots of tlc and is very affectionate. So I shall be lobbying Dara ;) - she has already completely rehabilitated one extremely nervous German Shepherd into a trusting, affectionate, playful companion and I'm sure she would be the perfect new mum for this new dog - a Lab/Lurcher cross smiling smiley

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Jeremy 26 March, 2012 10:12

Marie81 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's the owner to blame not the breed.

I'm sure there is an element of truth to that - dogs need to be well trained/socialised. But all animals are unpredictable to some extent, and we're talking about a dog which has specifically been bred for a strong prey instinct and a powerful bite. Such an animal needs to either be on a lead or muzzled at all times.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 10:18

Yes Jeremy, I completely agree. It is vital to know and understand the basic characteristics, instincts and behaviours of your breed of dog, so that you can make them happy, healthy, sociable and safe. To not know what you're taking on in your dog would be downright thoughtless - a dog MUST have the right home and circumstances and a knowledgeable, committed owner.

I desperately want a family dog - but I rent and therefore owning a dog is not an option currently. I am continually researching what the best kind of dog for our family circumstances/lifestyle would be though, in anticipation of the happy day when we can have a dog.

Edited to add - also, my youngest (the one who witness the attack) is not quite ready for a dog in our home, although Morph and Croi have been very helpful in teaching him to respect and care for a dog. He's not yet able to stop himself from fussing at a dog, so he needs to mature a bit before I'd expose a dog to his enthusiasm and all the love he has to offer a canine companion in our home - it wouldn't have anywhere to escape to! The poor thing would be overloved!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2012:03:26:10:22:34 by fuzzyboots.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by bonniebird 26 March, 2012 18:38

Hi Trish,

Chaz is a 5 year old Labrador cross Retriever. Poor Chaz has had to come back into foster as an unforeseen illness in his newly adoptive family meant he could not be offered the suitable home that was intended. Chaz is a truly loving lovely fellow. His true passion is children - he adores them, so a home with youngsters would be his idea of heaven. He is very laid back with horses and chickens. He loves to play with a ball, sleeps well all night in the kitchen, is 100% housetrained. He lives here with 5 other dogs - big and small - male and female - and is faultless with all of them. He is very sociable with everyone he meets, and has the sort of temperament where he would settle very quickly into a loving home. Chaz has very retriever traits, and loves to 'hold' your hand or foot with his paws whilst looking at you with adoration in his eyes!!!!!!!!!!
BEING FOSTERED IN MIDHURST, EAST SUSSEX. For more info please go to www.manytears.co.uk
Good luck Many Tears has tonnes of dogs and puppies needing homes good luck xxx

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 19:34

Oh he looks gorgeous - but I'm not sure my friend would be able to travel 55 miles to go and view him and it looks like he really would prefer to live WITH children rather than have them as visitors. Sigh/gulp ...

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Huggers 26 March, 2012 20:09

oh fuzzy, our dog came from a home in midhurst, he was well worth the 55 miles and it ended his terrible loneliness.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by fuzzyboots 26 March, 2012 20:14

I completely appreciate that but sadly data is unable to travel distances like that sad smiley

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Marie81 26 March, 2012 20:21

Jeremy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marie81 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it's the owner to blame not the breed.
>
> I'm sure there is an element of truth to that -
> dogs need to be well trained/socialised. But all
> animals are unpredictable to some extent, and
> we're talking about a dog which has specifically
> been bred for a strong prey instinct and a
> powerful bite. Such an animal needs to either be
> on a lead or muzzled at all times.

Yes I agree all animals are unpredicatable to some extent but I don't think a dog should be muzzled unless it has shown major signs of dog/people aggression. I don't think it's fair to muzzle just because it's a staffie, I have walked many wonderful staffies all friendly and find them the most responsive to training. There are other breeds with just as much strong prey instinct such as my own. The owner needs to know what they're taking on when they own a bull breed as with any breed of dog.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by first mate 26 March, 2012 22:35

I think the point is that this particular dog appears to have something of a history. Aside from Fuzzyboots, I've counted three other incidents that have appeared on this thread that all seem to have involved this same dog- a blue staff is fairly distinctive.

Given the apparent history, I find the shock and contrition of the owner a little unconvincing- unless he is in massive denial and some people do bury their head in the sand where their dog's behaviour is concerned.

This particular dog will need a massive amount of structured training and may never be wholly trustworthy with other dogs, especially small dogs. It should not be let off lead in the park or on the streets and probably will need muzzling for now.
Will the owner comply?

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Marie81 27 March, 2012 00:21

I agree first mate The dog in question should be kept out of the park, on a lead and muzzled whilst in training and slowly be intergrated back into the park still wearing it's muzzle/lead. Unfortunately I very much doubt the owner will comply, seeing as Morph's walker knows who the owner is can't the police get involved to ensure the owner complys?

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Renata Hamvas 27 March, 2012 08:02

I spoke to Mark Newell yesterday. The dog involved in this case is to be muzzled. One thing to be aware of is that the dog involved in this incident came from a large litter and all it's littermates live locally, with different owners. This means that even if you seen another dog that looks the same, it may not be the same dog but a sibling. There have been other dog-on-dog attacks in the area eg one a few weeks ago in Nunhead Cemetery. Mark has asked that any attacks are reported both to him and to the police.

Renata

--------------------
Cllr Renata Hamvas
Labour Councillor For Peckham Rye Ward
Renata.Hamvas@southwark.gov.uk
02075255223

Ward Surgeries
1st Friday, 6.30-7.30pm Rye Hill Park TRA Hall, Peckham Rye SE15
2nd Saturday,10-11am East Dulwich Community Centre, Darrell Rd SE22
4th Thursday (3rd in December), 6.30-7.30pm Nunhead Library, Gordon Rd SE15

Peckhamryelabour.blogspot.com

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Baxter 27 March, 2012 15:28

Hi. Thanks very much for the info on Chaz. He sounds adorable and lively. Unfortunately, he would not be the type for me as I am lacking in children, horses, chickens etc. His existence would just be with me most of the time so he would be bored to tears in my house with just me to play with! I'll know when I've found my next companion who needs loads of TLC, walks and 22 hours (bad sleeper) of optional play-time.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by PaulK 27 March, 2012 16:14

fuzzyboots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good news everyone - Mark has found the owner of
> Blue and has his contact details. Mark says the
> man is very shocked and wants to apologise
> directly to Dara, which is positive. He is also
> getting a muzzle for Blue.
>
> I've also received a couple of really helpful
> pointers in terms of rescue dogs/rescue centres
> who might have Dara's next forever dog - thanks so
> much. There are a few beautiful and likely
> looking characters - so please cross everything
> folks!
>
> Trish/FB

Bullshit. He is only sorry he has been traced.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by emilydrab 27 March, 2012 17:35

I am devastated to hear about poor little Morph and the vet's dog (I think that might be Amber's dog Hugo who is a lovely friendly little chap). It brings back horrible memories of what happened to my dog Woody two years ago, and anyone who sees me in the park will know I'm now a nervous wreck where other dogs are concerned (particularly big bull terrier types with a hungry look in their eyes) and stick to the outside of the park on our walks, or streetwalk. I feel so angry that so many walkers of dogs are too scared to go to the park - I'm one of them and stories like this show that I'm not paranoid not to have a relaxing walk. Dogs (particularly little ones who are more likely to be finished off by an attack) really are in danger. It's just devastating that people are allowed to get away with having vicious dogs who treat other dogs as prey. A muzzle just won't do it. That dog Blue should be put down and his owner prosecuted. This isn't two dogs having a little tiff - it's about a predator attacking its prey. Anyone who has witnessed this will realise how horrible this is, how terrifying. Another time and it will be a little toddler or a baby who gets attacked. The dog obviously has a record and if the owner was that devastated he would have done something about this long ago. As the PaulK says, only sorry he has been traced.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by Huggers 27 March, 2012 18:07

Emily, remember well your awful experience from last year. But please lets not encourage the myth that a dog hostile to other dogs is going to start attacking babies, it just brings out the dog haters.

messageRe: Dog (on dog) attack in Peckham Rye Park today - 16.40 (23/3/2012)
Posted by emilydrab 27 March, 2012 18:50

I take your point to some extent Huggers, but when you see a huge dog attacking a small dog and look at their faces while they do it, it's not about being hostile to another dog it's about prey. It's the same look dog's get when they are trying to get after squirrels - hungry, crazy for blood. It's terrifying. I seriously do believe a dog who attacks like this - and let's face it this Blue was not under threat by little Morph or behaving in a doggy competitive way - could easily attack a crawling baby as well. The dog and owner are not under any control. It could happen, and I don't think I'm being dramatic to suggest it.

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