Loz

Well done, James. Good to see all your hard work recognised at the poll.

Mind you, one thing in Labour's favour is Arsenal winning the FA Cup! If the FA Cup holders at the time of the election are a team who traditionally wear shirts in the "Conservative" colours of blue or white, the Conservatives win most seats at the election. On the other hand, if they play in "Labour" colours, red and/or yellow, Labour wins. This has only failed twice since 1950. But again, this is only 'most seats' and a Labour minority government or coalition would still follow the trend.

Why? This is the point in the election cycle where the opposition should be raking in the gains, yet Labour last night made minimal gains at best. Most oppositions need to have a poll lead of about 10% at this point to win, and Labour are way under that. As I said before, all signs at the moment point to a hung parliament, though Labour will be have the most seats.

That's really the point, Otta. The almost dog-whistle tactic of trying to brand UKIP a "racist, xenophobic, homophobic" has backfired spectacularly, as we can see. The analysis of UKIP support from the pollsters last night was interesting. The in/out of Europe question seems to be low on their concerns, yet that is issue all the main parties are concerned about. For the number one concern - immigration - there seems to be a steadfast denial to debate. Instead, there has been the silly response to shout 'racist' at UKIP supports. As I said before, I am an immigrant and so can see the fantastic positive immigration brings to the UK (*cough*), but if we don't have this debate soon, this feeling is going to spin out of control and some of the "darker" forces will start to make the most of it. The two other interesting points to come out of last night were (1) that one of the other reasons UKIP did well was that Farage was seen as "human", as opposed to the carefully controlled messages of the main parties. Farage's Boris-like stumbling from one PR-disaster to another was actually a little endearing to the electorate. Secondly, Labour's failure to make any headway means it looks like another hung parliament next year. Though Labour will be the biggest party in the commons. My prediction for the future: they will separate Euro elections from any other election. The Euro effect on last nights council elections was pretty obvious.

neilson99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you're an apologist, excuser or supporter of racist, > xenophobic, homophobic parties then that's your call. Nice try, but no dice, as you would see if you looked in the other political discussions going on around here. I just found your uber-PC proclamation tremendously funny. I could almost picture Malcolm from Viz's Modern Parents making the same comment. But if you ever want a good politics discussion that goes deeper than your Guardian and Daily Mail op-ed headlines, then I'm in. As I watch the results come in and the on-going analysis, it's really quite an interesting phenomenon.

neilson99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Loz, the race of the officials isn't important at > all to me - unlike Farage, Griffin et al. And yet you noticed their races and posted it here. Incidentally - how did you know they were immigrants, and not born in the UK?

It's all a bit right-on Guardianista, isn't it? I say, Jemima, there goes a black person! And in East Dulwich! Take that, Mr Farage, you rotter! More Pimms, anyone?

neilson99 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Pleased to see three "non white immigrants" as Presiding officer and admin officials at the > polling station keeping democracy in Britain going. One in the eye for you Farage, Nick Griffin > and your racist mob. The race your election officials seems strangely important to you. Most people don't give a damn. Would you have been terribly upset if they had been white?

As this is in a kitchen, doesn't this fall under the Part P requirements, so at the very least you'd need to get someone to certify the work?

Actually it helps them identify active voters - if you vote in the Euros, you'll probably vote at most polls and so worth hassling next time around. All parties do it. That's not to excuse any rudeness. Hope you told her to foxtrot oscar.

El Pibe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > aahhh. Diane Abbot she is a bit of an idiot to be fair. > Though paraphrasing to make a point is rather > underhand loz you should know better than that. I was being a bit underhand, true. But my point was that this person is already an MP and has been for quite some time. Had UKIP made the comments above, then they would have been - quite rightly - called out as racist. And yet all the people calling out UKIP don't say much about her. Is it coz...? > i did wonder at "Black African nurses would be unsuitable at certain hospitals as they might have > never seen a white person before." as it actually made no sense. To be fair, it made as much sense as the original Abbott quote.

PokerTime Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But Loz....most of those arrears are dealing with people at the bottom of the ladder, some of whom > have mental health issues and so on. That's where these people end up, under the wing of local > authority provision. Considering that Southwark is such a huge social housing provider, arrears are > actually a small farction of it's HA account revenue. But how can 60% of tenants in arrears be 'a small fraction'?

Roundabout Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Those not concerned about monies owed to the Council / Of course can?t ever again complain > about lack of services being provided / Or can they? Pretty much every council ever has been crap with nailing down arrears for both rent and council tax.

PT - you are usually better with figures than that. The articles says "as a result of central government?s welfare reforms", which would include all changes to HB, etc, not just those associated with those having excess bedrooms.

Do you have figures from a reputable source for Southwark for that? How do you distinguish that criterion?

WTF?

OK, so the odd UKIP person says something racist. But who could be offended at comments like: - "Black African nurses would be unsuitable at certain hospitals as they might have never seen a white person before." - "Illegal immigrants play 'divide and rule'. We should not play their game." - "White mums will go to the wall for their children." Hardly anything there to get worked up about, is there?

These turned up in the Money Saving Expert newsletter today. Probably won't work in a growbag, but are pretty awesome. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24281192

Has anyone actually got a link to UKIP's manifesto? (New or old) LD - where did you get your info from?

I think it is going to be a bit of a double hit, LD, at least in the Euros. A good proportion of UKIP voters come from the traditional Labour working-class base. Greens will pull away some of the students types and the middle-class lefties. But I think all three 'big' parties are going to take a hell of a hit on Thursday.

I have zero interest in voting UKIP - I think we should be in Europe and I am an immigrant myself. But democracy needs parties like UKIP - and even the BNP - to exist. Hopefully no one will vote for them, but if they do, it gives people the chance to be heard. UKIP has hit upon some people's fears. Now I believe those fears are misplaced, but they are there. The correct reaction to this is to debate them, calm those fears or understand them better. The wrong reaction is to call the party and their potential voters names. All that does is make them martyrs. I don't think UKIP are a racist party as a whole, nor Farage a racist. They do have some pretty unsavoury people in their ranks but I think that is because they're not a big enough party to vet every single candidate. Let's face it, the big parties still let the odd dodgy person slip through. I'm sure even the Greens have some people in the party we'd rather not have power like some extreme animal libbers. So UKIP existing just means democracy is working. They just need their arguments countered.

And you'll have to put up with all the broccoli jokes. Which, I suppose, still makes it marginally better than Nunhead.

You don't need it - just tell them your name and address. If you can take proof of those, even better. Voting in the UK is rather insecure, I think.

I always find the UKIP-style demand that people who come to Britain should learn the language and integrate amusing, since they are usually the most likely to head off to Spain to retire, don't integrate and never bother to learn the language. I always find people who hate UKIP amusing, as they are usually the most likely to criticise those who head off to Spain to retire, don't integrate and never bother to learn the language.

I always vote. I think if you don't vote then you shouldn't complain about the government.