cella

TheCat Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's notthat bad people. It's more of the same.... You can only be this cavalier if you feel that nothing can shake your secure world. Don't worry about those less confident and fearful. Good luck with that and to all of us.

Loutwo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Labour?s fence sitting on Brexit and abhorrent > treatment of Jewish opinions, saw me vote Green. I > changed my mind in the polling station btw. > > So after 10 years of Tory rule, the people of this > country could not trust the opposition. Says it > all, and there will be plenty like myself who made > the same judgment call. > > No doubt the urban champagne socialists will be > cupping their ears and blaming the result on > Brexit and not on a unpopular Marxist leader. > London?s bubble is just a out of touch echo > chamber. Not fit for purpose. > > Louisa. The fact that you've changed your mind/views several times and then made a snap decision whilst actually in the booth tells us much about the reliability and robustness of your decision making.

Hemingway Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Go and throw a Jew under a bus you hypocrite Admin want to come in here?

Hemingway Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The squirming and contortions on social media by > people who claim to be non-racists to justify > voting for an institutionally anti-Semitic party > which is frightening British jews is a sight to > behold today. Clearly anti-semitism doesn't really > count as racism for huge number of laughably > labelling themselves 'progressives' . Rank, > hypocrites..makes me want to puke. Ridiculous and OTT.

Quite the opposite - all media are reporting a much higher than normal voter turnout.

You have a decade of further negotiations even if you achieve your dream of "leaving".

Fay Maschler gave them a good review a while ago I seem to recall.

No was just out canvassing. Thankfully for most decent minded people, you and your views are in the minority. Enjoy your sleepless nights.

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Cohen22 > > I now realise why you might support the burning > of Logs.. > > Posted by cohen22 28 November, 2018 13:28 > > Pair of late Victorian cast iron bedroom > fireplaces. (100cm x 50cm). ?600.00. > > Edwardian cast iron fireplace. (123cm x 92cm). > ?750.00. > > Early Victorian (1820's) cast iron insert. (96cm x > 61cm). ?700.00. > > All fully restored. Lovely condition. > > Fox Hurrah - first post by DF that has actually made me laugh. In a good way.

Sounds like you are going to give your vote to either the Tories or Brexit parties. However it's not just about Brexit but also all the other ramifications of voting for either of these.

Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There are so many factors, it's difficult to be > balanced. > > Yes, immigration has undoubtedly out a strain on > infrastructure - however there is a contribution > from tax these people pay. The NHS does not > recover as much as it could to cover additional > costs of short term visitors, but other facts - > including increased costs are making the NHS > unstable. > > Accusing someone of being racist for stating fact > is hardly helping. It would be better to point out > the gaps in their arguments (eg that many migrants > work and contribute). > > Investment is required for public services - > schools, police, roads, NHS. > Where will this money come from? If you increase > tax on the rich, they will be incentivised to > leave. If that happens, there is less money, so > something a little more clever is required. > > What about ensuring companies pay the tax they > should, or that foreign investors into housing > have to contribute (it's a great deal for them > with weak pound etc - which actually increases > prices of the stock), or better yet, we invest in > growth, property, development... > > Whether you like Boris or Jeremy, you have to > think further ahead - and take other people's > views into account - you may develop a wider > understanding. An opinion is not necessarily fact. Uncleglen regularly posts his unpleasant and openly racist views on here and people quite rightly take him to task on these. That's what I was referring to as I refuse to be associated with them/him.

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cella Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > John McD is a skilled politician who is > credible. > > He's spent 2 years going round all the > financial > > institutions and has garnered a lot of support. > I > > really don't have time for the richest in our > > society getting uppity when they will be > required > > to pay a small amount extra in tax, if they pay > > any at all, as they are in the top percentage > > bracket. People need to embrace the idea that > with > > the huge gap between mega rich and so much > poverty > > we have to start addressing this. Everything > > Johnson says has to be taken with a pinch of > salt > > as he is a man of no convictions. His stance > today > > on the plight of the 4 year old sleeping on the > > hospital floor perfectly sums up him and his > > cronies attitude to the plight of vast swathes > in > > our country. > > It is well known that uncontrolled immigration has > the biggest impact on the poorer sections of > society- even the Archbishop of Canterbury said > that...so thanks to Labour for that. And it is > well known that rich people create jobs and employ > people. And the hospital thing is the result of > overpopulation and winter sickness and bed > blocking and was probably staged- after all the > RICH doctors send their kids to private schools > and for some reason think that Labour will improve > the NHS so will display red posters- just have a > look around Dulwich Village- but unfortunately the > extra people that Labour let into the country who > are in the main unskilled will be another burden > on the public sector....and so the snowball grows > and grows- and we have to plunder the poor > countries for their medical staff... > After Blair let in the East Europeans 2 years > before France and Germany and they came here > Slough council had to weigh its sewage to prove > that it had a problem with the extra people and > the dire lack of infrastructure to support the > increase in population. > All Labour do is look after their own > supporters-after all what better way is there to > pander to the Muslim vote than appear unashamedly > anti-Semitic My post was not an invitation for you to latch on and launch more of your unpleasant views. I do not wish to be associated with this sort of racism thanks.

malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Points I was making were > > (a) the value of debating how > useless/unliked/incompetent Corbyn is. we know > that so what is the point of reiterating. > > (b) That JC's full ambitions could not be achieved > due to financial and political factors and that > five years would not be long enough > > © That JC was voted in by a much larger number > of Labour members than BJ so you could surmise > that a tiny number have ended up influencing the > move to the right and the future shape of the > country. > > (d) a hard Brexit will screw up Torries modest > spending plans > > (e) that I have no answers - I'm pleased that you > enjoy my post but do you? > > > > > > > > Your posts are alway so peculiar and convoluted > - > > can't even work out properly who you are > > supporting so won't bother. There are no > solutions > > at this late stage. You just have to stick with > > what you think is right for most (how anyone > can > > even think that's what Johnson wants apart from > > his elite mates) or vote tactically. Do I what?

John McD is a skilled politician who is credible. He's spent 2 years going round all the financial institutions and has garnered a lot of support. I really don't have time for the richest in our society getting uppity when they will be required to pay a small amount extra in tax, if they pay any at all, as they are in the top percentage bracket. People need to embrace the idea that with the huge gap between mega rich and so much poverty we have to start addressing this. Everything Johnson says has to be taken with a pinch of salt as he is a man of no convictions. His stance today on the plight of the 4 year old sleeping on the hospital floor perfectly sums up him and his cronies attitude to the plight of vast swathes in our country.

You are at the bottom of our road and have been admiring the progress! Looks great - what is the grey non tile bit made from?

Rockets Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The fact remains that if the best Labour can hope > for is a hung parliament then they have > meteorically failed - they should be romping home > with a huge majority - but they are not because > they have gone too far the other way and it is > scaring people (more than Boris scares them). > > The rhetoric of tax the rich, ban billionaires, > stop the sale of the NHS, nationalise everything, > be neutral on Brexit, offer ?58bn to WASPIs (in a > "fully costed" manifesto and then say actually > that money may need to be borrowed), ban private > schools, chuck free stuff at people etc seems not > to be resonating enough. Why, because a lot of > what they are putting out there does not stand up > to scrutiny and are nothing more than soundbites > and playing into the right-wing media message of - > "these guys will bankrupt the country - again"? > > Watch the video in this BBC article and > McDonnell's body language towards the Caudwell - > his hatred for anyone successful is plain to see > (look at his reaction when Caudwell mentions the > work he does with charities and McDonnell's body > language throughout) and a lot of people actually > think that there is no problem being successful > and wealthy and you need that in an economy to > drive it forward, yet Labour seem to be > positioning success as something to be ashamed of > or to be attacked - they appear to be trying to > recreate Class War of the 80s and they are missing > the point entirely - yes tax avoidance should be > clamped down upon but they are throwing everyone > who is wealthy into the same bucket - just because > you are a billionaire doesn't mean you don't pay > taxes. It only takes one or two of Caudwell's of > this world to leave the UK (remember he has paid > ?300m in tax) and then one wonders where they > would plan to replace that lost revenue from. > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50704546 > > If Labour don't win they will need to return with > a more moderate leadership team and create > messages and policies that resonate with the > centre-ground voters. Everything at the start of your second para a lot of people actually want and support. This is to be applauded surely. Unlike Johnson who appears to be offering mind blowing sums to all and sundry (these are guaranteed to disappear apres no deal Brexit) the Labour promises are costed. The additional Waspi money will be borrowed and there is no shame in this. The current government are the biggest borrowers ever on record but just lie about it. Most billionaires don't pay their full tax and you shouldn't be grateful if one or two deign to make an offer to pay an amount then threaten to leave if required to properly pay up. How much money do the serial avoiders, Beckham etc, need before they are happy? Most working people have tax deducted at source and, rightly, don't have the luxury to avoid the contributions that fund our public services. There are plenty of good examples of people who have built empires and still choose to pay tax in this country on what they earn and most people don't mind this at all. You seem to be stuck in a time warp regarding Labour policies.

Have you actually read their manifesto? There is absolutely nothing for you be frightened of. Something there for most instead of making it easy for the 1% to make a grab at the expense of actual workers.

malumbu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not really sure what you are getting out of this. > Yes he not competent to be the next prime > minister. Yes he has many faults. > > But WTF the other bloke. I don't think that JC > could drag us that far to the left as (a) > resistance in his own party (b) practicalities in > reversing 30 years of privitisation © the money > would in deed run out (d) he couldn't achieve it > all in one term. > > But he was voted in by a far more sizable number > than BJ, not all were extemist/rabid which is far > truer of the Tory party. > > Can we have some positive and practical solutions? > Even the more modest spending plans by the Tories > will be in pieces once the hard/harder/no deal > Brexit happens. > > Talking about competence have none of you heard of > Attila the Stockbroker? Your posts are alway so peculiar and convoluted - can't even work out properly who you are supporting so won't bother. There are no solutions at this late stage. You just have to stick with what you think is right for most (how anyone can even think that's what Johnson wants apart from his elite mates) or vote tactically.

Hemingway Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cella Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > so > > they shouldn't vote against their own long term > > interests. > > a collapsed, socialist siege economy is against > the long term interests of everyone That just your version. A fairer society is what we need.

I think Brexit is the main issue here. A lot of people who aren't normally engaged with politics just "want to get Brexit done" without much thought to what giving their vote to Johnson & co will actually mean for them and their families. A lot of those people would massively benefit from what is on offer in the Labour manifesto and even if they are swallowing a lot of what is being pushed by the massively right wing media on Jeremy Corbyn, Leaders are disposable eg Theresa May, so they shouldn't vote against their own long term interests.

Assume this is an attempt at irony from you?

He has huge personal support - just depends on who you rely on for your information and which press you choose.

Not about moderating your tone - it's a reference to the ugly views you appear tomfreely state.

Many thanks - very helpful

uncleglen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Blah Blah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > What distortions of the truth would they be > Uncle? > > Meanwhile, if you really do want to see > > distortions of the truth, I suggest you watch > > Boris Johnson's car crash of an interview with > > Andrew Marr on iplayer. I suggest you also > revisit > > the claims made by both sides during the > > referendum campaign ;) > > I happened to see a few minutes of the > Johnson/Marr Sunday show...Boris was there to talk > about the London Bridge killings and Andrew marr > asked him how many other terrorists were out after > half a sentence- Boris said "74," Marr said > "Answer the question"- said it all- again- > switched off....they might as well get an > automaton on repeatedly saying 'Answer the > question' if Marr isn't going to listen to the > answer. > > I didn't listen to ANY of the claims by either > side during the run up to the referendum- I voted > leave according to my own observations and > experiences since 1973....overwhelmingly in favour > of Leave- the EU has asset-stripped the UK > wholesale- giving cheap loans out to non-EU > countries like Turkey enabling them to take our > manufacturing. > People like Heseltine have raked in ?900,000 a > year from the CAP..... > And the fishing industry is a third of what it > was- WE are a bloody island for crying out loud- > remember the Spanish vessels using illegal nets > and nearly wiping out our cod stocks? No I bet you > don't....you conveniently forget the REAL damage > done over the years...in your quest for a cheap > extension and looking up how much your property > has appreciated in the last 15 years. I watched the programme but a different version obvs. Give it a rest why don't you.