Earl Aelfheah

Someone can be deported if convicted of rape. The Telegraph article is about a man who had previously served time in his own country for a past crime. He was deemed by a judge "to no longer pose enough of a risk to be deported as he had been a law-abiding and working member of UK society for seven years". The headline is rather misleading.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As in the general debate on immigration, the > liberal left seems utterly incapable of separating > a 'worries about immigration' from 'fear of > immigrants'; whilst the Xenophobes and racists mix > up the two so do the 'liberals'. It is quite > possible to have concerns about immigration > without any fear of immigrants - many second and > 3rd generation immigrants do themselves! That's > the problem with not allowing/shutting down any > debate on this in the past, huge swathes of > Guardian readers just can't intellectually > separate them.... It's nonsense to say the immigration debate has been 'closed down'. But when Farage is talking about EU immigrants putting 'our women' at danger of sexual assault, what response can you give? Just as often it's 'the right' closing down legitimate criticism via constant cries of 'political correctness'. I agree with Louisa though that there is a sensible debate to be had in the middle somewhere. It's fair to talk about the impact of immigration without suggesting that immigrants are dangerous.

@louisa - if I've misinterpreted what you've said I apologise. It's a difficult one re. accusations of xenophobia. On the one hand it's not particularly helpful if you want to engage with people to accuse them of being fearful of incomers. On the other, it's pretty clear that there is a strong strand of xenophobia running through some of the debate and particularly the press coverage. We shouldn't pretend it's not so, for fear of causing offence.

Yes. and no.

I think a lot of people are put off by the fact that it's not heated though. It's the intention that the Peckham one will be.

Louisa, I do wish you'd stop implying that 'the working class' are all anti immigration. What right do you have to say this? It's equally untrue to suggest that it's only poorer people who are anti immigration (look at huge numbers of the Tory party for starters). I come from a working class family (as does my wife) and they certainly don't share your views on immigration causing the collapse of public services. My grandad (a shop steward who worked on the factory floor his whole life) married my grandmother, an Italian immigrant, after the Second World War. He would be appalled at some of the headlines in the Mail and Sun today, or Mr Farage's rhetoric.

Great post

Some of the BS from the Leave camp: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/eu-referendum-fact-check-david-cameron-leave-campaign-claims

In

I agree with James B. Southwark should enforce the planning regulations and not their aesthetic judgments. I certainly don't want the council deciding on what is or is not visually acceptable. The solicitors firm should know better.

Isn't a 'street art gallery' an oxymoron?

I'm not sure there is 'fuss' about round here, outside of this forum that is.

I think the idea of the poor 'bearing the brunt' of immigration is overplayed and is (mistakenly in my view) premised on the idea of immigration being 'a problem'. It's true that there is a concentration in some low skilled industries of overseas workers, but a lot of the reason for that is that there was demand for labour in some of those areas. There is little evidence of immigration driving down wages, or displacing 'native' workers, despite the rhetoric. Also, one can't ignore the fact that there are also large numbers of highly skilled workers in the UK, in industries such as IT and consultancy for example. People talk about the metropolitan London elite being removed from the realities of immigration, but I would argue the opposite. Londoners understand the realities of immigration very well - it is a diverse city, and that is why they are generally less hostile to people coming from abroad. Study after study, shows that it is those with the least direct experience of immigrants, who are the typically the most hostile to them. I understand that if you are languishing on a housing waiting list, one possible reaction is to blame foreigners, but I also think this is entirely wrong and should be challenged. Politicians have failed to provide decent, social housing and have sold off most of what we already had. It is convenient for them to blame this failure on immigrants, but we really shouldn't allow them to divert attention from their own culpability in this way.

???? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My point remains, there are plenty of decent > non-bigoted arguments for Brexit.... Well I agree with that.

you've scoured this thread and concluded that's the biggest rant on here?!?

Root hasn't been ranting.

Yep

This is an important vote. I hope people vote on the substance and not as a petty way of 'getting back' at people they don't like or feel may have offended them.

Come on Louisa, you sneer more than most, let's be honest. I dont' really get the objection LadyNorwood. No one is being 'told what to do', they have a choice. It's perfectly reasonable for people to express their opinion however, even where it may differ from your own.

Where is it you think patriotism is being wrongly identified?

Isla White

The Democrats need to unify (regardless of whether one feels Hiliary was the right choice or not) and turn their focus to stopping Trump.

White Dog

honky

angel dust?