Otta

Awesome! I saw the muppets making a music video in Brighton, but it wasn't the official muppets. Was still cool though.

Rafa has given up on remaining as Chelsea manager after this season. Better off out of it.

You and me Jah, bring it you slaaaaag!

She's not in the same annoying league as Corden!

Absolutely Atticus!

mashcov Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If some anonymous moderator decides to delete > threads then they should at least have the > courtesy to provide reason for doing so or an > explanation to the OP or the rest of the forum Why? As Jeremy said, they owe you nothing. You're not paying to use the site or post ads, so although you may be frustrated, you have no grounds to complain that they SHOULD do this or that.

Aw, TT if I'd bothered to read the OP (or any posts in full) I'd have realised that. (and I'd have realised you started the thread, so clearly wouldn't have mocked) So, where is my invite for the sausage in cider?

Has anyone actually looked at this thread and bothered making anything that is suggested? There are plenty of recipes on the interweb you know. By actual chefs.

I don't mind them coming to my door, as I can shut it. I'm less keen on them preaching on the upper deck of the bus, that just feels uncomfortable, and distracts me from my book if I don't have headphones in.

Agree. It's quality, but it's dull.

Did you drag the icon in to the "drop here" box? yYou have to do that before you can click "Vote Now". Although when they call an icon "the musical note", they're wrong. It's a treble clef.

3rd place, quite a way behind the top 2. Come on people!

mashcov Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If they do not make themselves known to me with an > explanation I will have to investigate further. I'm very keen to know how you plan to investigate further though. Are you going to use a laser beam to turn yourself in to particles, then travel the world wide web seeking answers? Cool.

Yep, just read the story on the beeb. Benitez isn't weak, and can be a stubborn goat, so hopefully he won't let Terry walk all over him. Absolutely ridiculous situation though!

Michael Palaeologus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It isnt just the targets. Bad targets, > unrealistic, politically driven targets set by > people who are not going to ask questions about > how the are achieved is part of the problem. > > Targets are simply a means to an end. The > provision of an effective service at an acceptable > cost, as defined by certain metrics. The real > problem is that government starts to see the > metrics as defining the effectiveness of the > service. They dont, the effectiveness of the > service is defined by individual outcomes. These > are often subjective eg how did I feel about my > treatment at hospital X? Treasury doesnt like > subjective measures. > > The bigger problem is culture. When a culture > deems that the rape victim is of less importance > than the statistics, there is a significant > cultural problem. Spot on.

"Here, they're just at the public's expense, and if he can't understand that, he shouldn't be in public service. " A public service yes, but all public services are run like private companies these days. It's crap, but that's the model they're in to. He was attempting some damage limitation, in most public services his bosses would be pleased with that. I don't want to get hung up on him though, the thread is about whether victims, or "wronged" people basically then get a free reign in the press, because no one wants to be seen as questioning them, for fear of being labelled insensitive. Forget Hillsborough, it's too unique and messed up to be a good example, I should have thought of that.

I think pretty shit people. Targets are shit, but you just don't go down that road if you have any kind of decency.

Yep, he's showing Chelsea that he can do things given a bit of time. Fair play.

I suspect (but don't know for sure) they'll make you pay for the seat.

Good quote, and yes, sums it up nicely for me.

MM, I should have been clearer. I know what a target is, and agree that we all have them in work and in life. What I dislike is when a load of performance indicators get set, but it costs a fortune and a load of adminh time to actually monitor and record the progress. That to me is a waste of time which could be used more wisely elsewhere.

Burbage, I didn't really read what he was doing in the same way as you. I just think they knew what was going to come out more or less, and they also knew that the press wouold have no option but to (rightly) condemn them, so he wanted to limit damage. Police officers at that level are not plods, they are managers. He was trying to do the best for his "company". Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking his side, but equally I don't think it really deserved such a rsponse. The thing that was condemned was not what he suggested doing, but the fact he'd said that the Hillsborough campaign could say whatever, and it would be accepted without question. Woodrot's post puts it all quite well for me.

In that case, the targets in hospitals that the doctors struggle to meet, which involve more time doing admin, and less admin support, could be responsible for a patient's death. Not saying that's not the case, it's just a pretty damning way to look at it. I wish they would get rid of targets, they've certainly made my life more difficult!

I was chatting about this over the weekend. David Crompton (South Yorkshire's chief constable) has had to make a public apology for an email he sent (internally) about how his force should respond to the Hillsborough report last year. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-21586453 It's basically a reasonable email from an employee discussing how to handle a situation, and at no point does it suggest doing anything wrong, he states that they should stick to facts. The thing that has caused the upset is that he says "The Hillsborough Campaign for Justice will be doing their version... In fact, their version of certain events has become "the truth", even though it isn't". Now that is basically true, but because the Hillsborough families have been the victims of such a cover up over the years, and because there are so many revelations that have now come out, they have basically become untouchable. Equally I often hear people who have been the victims of hate crimes like racist attacks, or sexual crimes, on the radio as they have become campaigners against hate / sexual crimes. There are times when they talk absolute nonsense, but when challenged they will basically say that unless you've been there, your opinion is effectively trumped by theirs, even if theirs is a load of tosh. Not entirely sure where I expect this thread to go, just thought it was an interesting conversation that I'd share. Is it exclusive to this country? Are we so scared of offending, that we daren?t challenge those who have been the victims of crime or injustice?

I am getting tool envy now. My collection is all very ordinary, range of screwdrivers, spanners, allan keys, hammer, drill, saw, tape measure etc. I need power tools!