StraferJack

Everyone gets that hiss when they turn 23 dont they?

31st dec for infinity in dulwich apparently. Which is off topic I know but in case PR was interested

we have been defeated??? wow

ooooh should I? "...or indeed miles from the centre of UK political opinion, if you factor in the whole of the UK rather than just 'people I regard as sound on these sort of issues'" Supposition Is it that simple? I thought politics was actually about finding the right pragmatic solution to the problems at hand? History has shown that politics and which version is implemented has enormous consequences. It's not just about "choice" surely?

"But SJ - as daveR has pointed out the distance to the ends of a spectrum depend upon where you yourself sit upon it. We may be personally / politically miles apart - but that does not mean I am, personally, miles from the objective centre." Hmm - well I see the centre as where the large majority of people sit, with smalls shifts to left or right - and many with a mish mash of the two. Whereas, and I'm possibly doing you another disservice, but I'm not sure THAT many people genuinely wish for the kind of state you describe I don't see that as controversial - is it?

Hmm - sorry MM - I haven't done a very good job of clarifying that although I find your libertarian beliefs to be on the edge of the political spectrum, I have no beef with you expressing them and us arguing them Again if you think I've been trying to prevent you from expressing them, my apologies But back to 2008. If the government hadn't stepped in post-the run on Northern Rock, and they hadn't been shored up by the big state how do you think events would have unfolded? To my mind, the whole system would have collapsed - to the point of people not being able to access money from cashpoints, spreading panic. I also disagree with the idea of a socialist utopia. But I do believe in tempering teh excesses of capitalism. And I think most of the last 100 years have been a good example of how a capitalist society works, and works best when it is married to a concept of fairness and inclusion. Left to it's own devices, we would still be in the 21st century equivalent of the victorian era of mill-owners Weekends Working Weeks Health Service Minimum Wage I don't see these as a prelude to a socialist utopia - I see them as basic building blocks for a decent society So no - I don't wish for a socialist utopia - whereas you do advocate an idea that nobody dares to implement in any country - despite the massive differences in cultures

oh and I possibly regret uusing the word "fringe" if anyone thinks I'm employing it dismissively. I'm really not. I'm just using it in the sense of the spectrum

Oh I'm not challenging his argument because I think he's fringe - I'm just saying that to compare him with DC isn't quite accurate. It would be fairer to compare Huguenot and DC in that respect. Fundamentally opposed on the issue but not that far apart fundamentally But as you dispute my other point, can either you or MM provide examples of the small states in existence which show the benefits of that argument?

Not really - following the Leveson enquiry is fascinating about the working practices at the various rags It's a bit like a sweatshop of hate

Line in the sand - tried speaking to this idiot in his various guises before and I'm not going down that road again he's going to be banned soon enough if his track record is anything to go by so in the meantime, it's [ignore]

what's racist about the organisation BBW - it's a minority group sharing resources and support - just like a gay & lesbian group in the police force what's the story with you here btw?

and the rebuttal to that nonsense can be found here I hate it when Sydenham gets tough with you BBW/CD, because then you come on here and piss vinegar everywhere again. Go huff and puff somewhere else

New nexus

I read that Bono was an investor in Koya I didn't really. But ibilly won't like even the idea...

given that was the road you were travelling I joined in. Hopefully you can see it's pointless. The situation we have is what we see here - not some made up story. So probably best to stick with that I agree with your point about here being drugged up tho - even more worrying for the kid

H - it was YOU that came up with the line "some completely bizarre idea that private sector workers can demand higher pensions and early retirement too!! With f**king WHAT money???" so I answered it. If you want to call it a red herring, the fishy smell is coming from you I didn't say it was FREE money - I said it was money that existed. If someone WANTED to they could make the situation less drastic for the employees. If they WANTED to. Of course there are other considerations to take into account - but there is money there

"you suspect" doesn't make anything true or even feasible But if your supposed situation arose, I suspect, that with someone videoing it on the phone and sending it to youtube, it would be an even bigger story But hey welcome to the forum and posting for the "first" time

Unilever profits up 18% to 5.2 billion UK pounds Unilever pension deficit currently 640 million UK pounds and they see fit to offer golden hellos of ?3 million or so I think the money is there

MM wants a smaller state than anywhere currently in existence. Much smaller. That's an opinion but it isn't based in experience or evidence

"If you start as a smug, relatively comfortable, educated, middle-class, urban, Guardian reading, trendy specs wearing South of England liberal cliche " You might have "smug, relatively comfortable, Guardian reading" althought I would debate smug But the other things aren't true of me And I'm not saying MM looks like Newt based on this thread - there was one a while back where he expanded on his libertarian values and then there was this None of which is to denigrate MM in any way btw. I admire his ability to remain calm and present his views without becoming emotional and sometimes wish I could do that. And when he takes occasional leave of the forum, the place is worse off without him But boy do I disagree with him! (and the laughing len quote was for his benefit, as he will know, hime being a huge Cohen fan)

Speaking of ponzi schemes, who took responsibility for this particular creation ? I mean everyone bought into it at one time, so they must be known? Or was the scheme sound until it's custodians dropped the ball so spectacularly? If I was going to take the hit for my pension without complaint, I'd like to know that the people responsible were at least taking responsibility Good to see part of the private sector (at Unilever) start to make the same noises too To quote Leonard Cohen : Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows that the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied Everybody got this broken feeling Like their father or their dog just died Everybody knows the deal is rotten Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton For your ribbons and bows And everybody knows or to quote from Bodie off the Wire: ""The Wire: Final Grades (#4.13)" (2006) Preston 'Bodie' Broadus: I been doing this a long time. I ain't never said nothing to no cop. [sighs] Preston 'Bodie' Broadus: I feel old. I been out there since I was 13. I ain't never fucked up a count, never stole off a package, never did some shit that I wasn't told to do. I been straight up. But what come back? Hmm? You'd think if I get jammed up on some shit they'd be like, "A'ight, yeah. Bodie been there. Bodie hang tough. We got his pay lawyer. We got a bail." They want me to stand with them, right? But where the fuck they at when they supposed to be standing by us? I mean, when shit goes bad and there's hell to pay, where they at? This game is rigged, man. We like the little bitches on a chessboard. Off. James 'Jimmy' McNulty: Pawns. "

I've never been a queue-jumper!

More " apples and oranges", I'd say Carnell might be many things but a fringe player he ain't. Whereas by his own admission marmora man is out there on the libertarian, small-state edges. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe a sizeable number of people believe as he does. But I still wouldn't say he and Carnell are different sides of the same coin

Oooh. I think I just realise who tarot is!!

I've taken a direct train from East Croydon to east Dulwich in the last month, but it's definitely an occasional service compared to a few years back when there was a big sign on the ED railway bridge advertising "Ed to London Bridge 11 minutes, ED to East Croydon 22 mins"