edhistory

Mockney Piers: Have I got news for you. There were no roads or railways in 10 000 BC. The "about" file on flood.firetree.net is careful to explain the data sources, their limitations, and how the data has been transformed. As you can see, this is an inappropriate data set for modelling our valley's landscape. It is not possible using this data set to achieve the same effect as using Ordnance Survey data. However we can use this inappropriate data set as a demonstrator for some of points worth further investigation with more accurate data. [1] Set the view to Hybrid. [2] Centre the map to Goose Green roundabout. [3] Change the Sea level rise to +20 m. [4] There are now three stand-alone blue blocks. The clunky nature of these is explained in the "about" file. [5] The blue block on Peckham Rye Common doesn't need any explanation. [6] The blue block to the north of Grove Vale is part of the Grove Vale Depression. Because of the vertical scale intervals you cannot see the rest of the depression south of Grove Vale. However, if you walk along Grove Vale and look along the side roads you can see it quite clearly. The historical implications are for another thread. EDIT 2011-07-06: Goodbye depression. There is a small channel between Bellenden Road and Oglander Road. [7] The blue block north of Abbotswood Road is the demolition layer of Constance Road Workhouse. [8] The whole of the land between Dog Kennel Hill and Red Post Hill is heavily engineered. [9] Re-centre the map to the junction of Townley Road and Lordship Lane. [10] Change the Sea level rise to +30 m. [11] The shape of the lower part of our valley is now visible. [12] The Peck/Effra watershed is now visible [13] The Herne Hill Gap is now visible. John K

Our valley is immediately south west of the Isle of Dogs. The map shows the probable high water mark of the River Thames about 10 000 BC. John K EDIT 2011-07-03: More interesting thread title EDIT 2011-07-04: Reversion to original thread title

The oral history recordings have are intended to capture a picture of everyday East Dulwich life from around 1945 to around 1970. If anyone is interested in running a separate project for later years feel to drop by for a chat about how to go about it. John K

An excellent proposal. Are you going to gather a group to take this forward as a project? I can contribute the free use of a meeting room that seats 18. John K

Bumping this because the Southwark conservatiom area proposals affect East Dulwich residents, and as this thread is in the fast-moving lounge it was already buried on page two. Way back in 2009 when English Heritage published their Historical Assessment all you had to do was send them an email and they'd post you a "FREE" hard copy of the report. By nearly return post you got a very well produced A4 size book printed on good quality paper with all the colour illustrations. If it were a commercially published book it would retail at around ?30. English Heritage has suffered severe budget cuts and I don't know if they still provide this "free" service. Nevertheless it might still be worth a try in case they have some space copies stuffed in the back of a cupboard. John K

Holidays on Tower Bridge Beach. John K

Townleygreen: I don't mind if you want to treat JAGS as being in East Dulwich and demote Alleyn's to second wealthiest. Although JAGS is in the SE22 post code area it is a bit of a stretch to say it's in East Dulwich. It would be great if you have some fresh evidence that JAGS' plot of land was ever in East Dulwich I imagine you can verify the relative wealth of of JAGS and Alleyn's from the Foundation's returns to the Charities Commission. Amelie: I have an original copy of the 1857 "An Act for Confirming a Scheme of the Charity Commissioners...[etc, etc]". The Victorians were verbose - they could have called it "The Dulwich College Act". The corruption and events leading up to the 1857 Act are interesting, but not part of East Dulwich history. However, Camberwell Vestry seem to have done some "interesting things" in the first half of the 19th century, but that's another thread for another time. Everyone: I'm afraid my original question has become somewhat obscured: I am looking for evidence of Alleyn's School's contribution to the local community during the 20th century with particular emphasis on the period before the second world war. John K

Worth a look as the proposed conservation area covers a slice of East Dulwich. I can't see who wrote the Southwark Document, but some of the structure and text is very similar to the English Heritage report of 2009. Ths post is not an endorsement of English Heritage errors. John K

EDmummy: This is the post from last year that you remember. It was written by that idiot in the bookshop. I'll speak to him, tell him I've read more about the subject than he had, and put him straight. Every time he wrote "London Clay" he should have written "one or more of the layers of mixed clay, sand and gravel that fall under the umbrella London Clay Formation classification". That will teach him. John K

I've not forgetten this thread. It will take me a little time to prepare a response to your contributions. Sorry. John K

I was working my way through the Council's 1938-39 accounts to find out how and where the Air Raid Precautions Budget was spent. I cam across this job title which amused me. That's it. John K

Townleygreen: I used the relative "wealthiest" as a comparison with the very small number of East Dulwich charities I know about. This is personal knowledge based on the examination of files going back to 1948. I do not have any evidence yet, but I would be surprised if it was not also the wealthiest for the period 1918-1939. Information about scholarships and bursaries for East Dulwich boys would be very useful. I know from casual conversations at the time that from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s the terminology used was imprecise. A scholarship boy waa a scholarship boy, and that was that. No distinction was drawn between a full or partial bursary provided and funded by the school and a school place purchased by the London County Council. I am using a nominal cut-off date of 31 March 1965 for local history. I do not intend to enter any debates about the 21st century charitable status of the school. John K

Townleygreen: There is no published historical narrative of charities and their work in East Dulwich. The starting point is Terry's Charity which was in existence before 1818. William Terry of Lordship Lane gave to his educational charity an annuity of ?60 in perpetuity and the freehold of four small cottages in Lordship Lane known as Terry Place. After that there is a gaping void to be filled. On this thread several people have posted that they know about Alleyn's School's charitable work in the community. I am hoping they may provide some evidence. The emphasis here (the EDF) on before the second world war is because the oral history interviews may pick up some post-1939 information. lillyanginger: The donor records in the school's archive have a part to play in the narrative. However, I'm looking for a balanced view that includes recipient documents and memories. The school is the wealthiest charity in East Dulwich and over a hundred years it should have left a tangible footprint of its charitable work in the community. John K

I am looking for evidence of Alleyn's School's contribution to the local community during the 20th century with particular emphasis on the period before the second world war. Can anyone help? Thank you. John K

I think I'll park this research topic until I can find a qualified geologist. I've now attached the map with the trace line but it comes with two warnings: [1] This may be a cartographic artefact and not exist in the real world. [2] If it does exist any interpretation is likely to be contentious. Drop by for a chat if you want to know more. John K

PeckhamRose: For the purposes of this thread I wanted to use a map totally devoid of distractions caused by human clutter. Over in the "Clay in the valley" thread cubista has posted the URL for the BGS Geology of Britain Viewer. This should provide the street overlay you want. Marmora Man: I'm sure I read somewhere that it's a submarine parked on Mt Ararat. "That photo" comes from John Nisbet's "The Story of One Tree Hill" published in 1905. John K

Thanks, Hugenot, I think you have the essential truth of it. Insurance companies make unsupported assertions and "London Clay" is a convenient, but inaccurate, handle. However, I'm still interested in reports of any assertions insurance companies have made about local geology. Evidence of any geologically induced subsidence in our valley is elusive. I have read nearly all of the material of the London Basin Forum (and the Thames Gateway Project) and followed up many of the bibliographic references in the hope that they might contain material about our valley. There's not much there: A few inconsequential and contradictory references to the Dulwich Fault. An analysis of the Harders Road borehole which, although immediately outside our valley, provides tentative evidence for the River Peck alluvial fan. This is not surprising as apart from the River Peck draining into the Thames Basin our valley is a separate geological feature. I recently placed a map in the Lounge which illustrates this. The river terraces are a north of the Thames feature. I have carefully examined our valley for any unexpected remnants of river terraces but have found none. John K

For nearly a year I have been studying the geology of the East Dulwich & Nunhead valley and I have encountered an unexpected problem. I have not found any hard evidence that there is any London Clay in our valley. Over the years there have been posts on the East Dulwich Forum about insurance companies asserting that houses in our valley are built upon London Clay and either refusing buildings insurance or asking for higher premiums. Has any insurance company provided evidence to support this assertion? John K EDIT 2011-06-19: Temporary change of thread title EDIT 2011-06-24: Title reversion

For ease of reference I have placed a rectangle around the East Dulwich & Nunhead valley. I have not marked the trace. Can you see it too? John K EDITED: Thread title clarified.

When our local men went to the Western Front they had little idea of the hell that awaited them. Some East Dulwich Women - mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, girlfriends - would have been wearing their sweetheart badges. John K

A Victorian park feature. I'm looking for a better quality image for publication. Can anyone help? Thank you. John K

Thanks again, ianr, another item for my Kew shopping list. John K

Thank you for the lead, lilolil, there's a good chance it can be authenticated. It raises some interesting questions: [A] Do the court records survive? Can a narrative be recovered? [C] Can anything more be found out about Mr Ladd? [D] Is this one of the sheep-shagging convictions under the Buggery Act of 1533 (25 Hen. VIII c. 6)? [E] Why, in this case, was an exception made to the traditional place of execution at Kennington Common? [F] Was a law and order deterrent being addressed to the people of Camberwell Parish? [G] Was 10th August 1786 the date of a Peckham Common fair where Mr Ladd was the main entertainment? Louisa raises the continuing confusion about the three distinct and geographically separate open spaces: Peckham Rye Peckham Rye Common Peckham Rye Park For 1786 there is hard evidence that the Common was in Friern (East Dulwich). There's an amusing story that around 1950 London Council Council lost Peckham Rye Common and only found it again by swearing an affidavit. John K

Martin Baggoley in his book "Surrey Executions" asserts, without supporting evidence, that "In eighteenth-century Surrey [...] condemmed criminals were [...] hanged [...] on Peckham Common [...]". I have never seen any evidence to support this statement. Can someone provide an authentic reference? Thank you. John K

The first significant municipal housing in East Dulwich was the Grove Vale Estate built by Camberwell Borough Council between 1903 and 1905. There is a brief account here. If I remember rightly the estate was self-funding from the rents that were used to repay a 60-year municipal loan. What Camberwell could do in 1903 Southwark can't do in 2011. John K