????

To answer Sedgewicks original point. There were pagan and other religious ceremonies to celebrate the winter solstice throughout history and way before christ. Traditionally the depths of winter when it was often frozen, the days are very short , so there was little time or need to do anything on the land, and the harvest surplus was starting to go rotten (ditto grain for the livestock was running low) so it was a good time for slaughtering and stuffing one's self with surplus before the lean times approaching (coincidentally christianity invented Lent for this). Christianity just tagged on to a pagan festival. The real question is why do Christians continue to celebrate Christs birthday at a time of the year when both historically (Herod's census wasn't in December) and astronomically (the star) its been proven wasn't his birthday?

Why?

A guy I work with won the Pokerstars UKPIT in Ireland a couple of weeks ago to add to the Edinboro title he won earlier in the year... ?100k tax free, nice gig.

If it ain't Hammer I'm terrified and out

Abuse for someone who disagress with you....you'll go far on here

Finn striking back 35 - 2 now, two quick wickets. Big lead alreday on this pitch though

I would have said that when I was 26, and probably 36 too

My company puts up everyone in hotels, a team of 4 poker tournament with a ?1000 on each table (?250 each for the table winners), great meal, free booze all night (some still standing at 8am) and a cigar roller flown in from Cuba....who says Ireland's going down the pan....but i was at home with the missus and saucepans (in all honesty I'd rather be with them but pity it wasn't the weekend I got snowed in :X)

Mick Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mockney piers Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >> So we always think that one season it'll all > just > > come together and we might actually win > something, > > but weirdly it never seems to quite happen. > > Bring back John Lyle, Tony Cottee and Frank > MacAvennie. And the guy who used to take the > penalties. Tonka AKA Ray Stewart

It's all a bit predictable - all that triumphalism in the press too. Of course the value seekers and unpatriotic may have had a little bet on the Aussies for the Ashes earlier this week....

Dazie's your gel

Narnia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What does a sci-fi 'road movie' mean please? The Empire Strikes Back

Had to laugh on the BBC preview for Irons V City..."The last time West Ham were in a relegation dogfight they had a certain Carlos Tevez to call on..." he was with us last season was he?! Still, when does a journalist, especially the web sort, let the truth get in the way of a 'clever' link. Tevez out today....still not confident :'(

;-) ...a bit more reasoned today surely?

Is that what Brendan and I get categorised as nowadays? I dunno. He's done the David Copperfield one before...which shows I have too. It made me laugh (first time).

Hal I think that story raises an interesting point. The publish it all unedited creates so much noise that it get's lost, encourages hoax, and can compromise people's safety (as in Afghanastain). etc. There;s a bit of a lets just dump it all out there feel. Of cousre, the odd word in the right jouurnalsists ear worked pretty well too, maybe better. Ponting and, of course, Watergate being excellent examples.

I don't, I'm surprised Sean hasn't yet pulled me up for this :))

I've said my bit on counteracting priveliged private education and increasing social mobility - private schools lose their charitable status unless 10% of their pupils are from the poorest 10% of households. But that's of course elitist and recognising what a failure much of our state education is so would again start the bleating, the fact that it would work being neither here or there. Let's bring all the high standards down rather than raising any up. 'Nother thread I guess.

"Plenty of solutions have been put forward quids. Fewer more specific university places distributed on merit etc" So you don't want this now Brendan? Or you never did? Or you want poor people especially without their priveliged education to get crap degrees and debt? Or you want tories all shot? Or you don't have any constructiive solution just than contrariness? Easy role to play. Or maybe you've found the money tree.

There's of cousre the Inner Circle too. They are watching us now.

Snorky - you been keeping it real up there in Westminster or just doing your bit for global revolution on the EDF?

"Plenty of solutions have been put forward quids. Fewer more specific university places distributed on merit etc" Agree with that absolutely, in fact it sounds suspiciously like wot it used to be like. But that is, of cosures, in the scourge of modern equality (mediocrity) both 'Elistist' and 'not fair' I can hear the bleeting starting already.

I'd have hoped some educated people had read David Copperfield....that hope's looking forlorn in academic circles nowadays.

But Brendan you don't seem to be saying anything other than 'terrible'. It still has to be paid for. So the state pays it (ie everyone) including those who never went themselves and whose children won't. You still haven't told me how we pay for it? Easy to say ooh cuts on higher education horrid. Simply - how do we pay for a growing percentage of a growing population going to ever more expensive universities when there are some more important areas like a general education and the populations health and retirement provision which are growing in cost massively in real terms becuase of demography and technology? The mortgage just can't keep get bigger. You don't even want to make a hypothetical tough choice on the internet. It's not just the tories having a bit of fun it's a stark reality for which eveyone just seems to tut their head and say "oh no not HE no, no; nor benefits of course; the Film Council how short sighted; etc etc etc

We can, of course, increase the states take by increased taxation as an alternative......