Not much to argue with in what you have written Huguenot, it's what you haven't written... "Give me well-informed convergent concessionary politics any day." - for sure.. but historically we can see that some of the most progressive changes have happened not through this means but through direct action by a "minority" against a "common enemy". Wether it was segregation in the US or Voting rights here and elsewhere, power has had to be fought for and is seldom granted. James when starting this thread was fighting his own corner and lost some support by seeming "one-issue" about the whole thing but essentially, within his narrow terms, he was correct to challenge the laissez-fair attitudes against gay people. Ditto all of the other groups mentioned in the subsequent arguments.. He stands accused of trying to "prove his tribe is the most hard done by" and this is clearly what irks you the most but I don't think it stands In the wider argument of "hate crimes" poverty plays a large part for sure but anyone who has witnessed a drunk city-boy tearing into a homeless person near Charing Cross (as I have done several times) knows it's not just about that either. Ignorance is a trickier one because, compared to anytime in history, the vast majority of people have access to pretty much all the information they need.