SeanMacGabhann

score, team Brendan! Marmora Man - of the 5 options you presented, #3 comes closest. In fact the other 4 would be non-starters in my book. If #1 happened I'd almost be tempted to vote no myself I don't think it does politicians any harm to have to get out and explain themselves more readily. But I'm of the firm belief the EU project should go ahead. Sometimes I think I'm living in South Dakota in the late 19th century, with all around me hellbent on saying no to the union

This was on of the first things I noticed when I moved here 7 years ago and it used to really bug me. These days I quite like it.. start of the weekend and all that

*but some of the locals sneered at Johnny and called him an insipid metrosexual ;-)

I thought it was a fear of free newspapers?

Damn.. and to think I have been on their "we'll call you when it's in" list for 3 months for a certain.. product. Off to the un-real mean corner for me then

I would use the phrase "lol" but.. well you get the picture. I laughed out loud but the phrase.. I think the whole "vibrant" issue has reached epic proportions and now deserves it's own thread. Or at least a spot on the "phrase that make you spit" thread And as for the slogan for Peckham - my home town would be proud of such an accolade

Snorks - as you are prone to flounce from the forum I doubt Admin would cancel your membership Vibrant has been adopted by the sources you mention but is no less meaningful for that. you know what it means so ease up on the withering contempt, there's a love As for Wasn't that www.beerintheevning.com's point to you ;-)

t'aint no big deal Alice - I don't think many people are competing. But there does appear to be a weird thing going on where the very people (teeeny in number and perspective) who delight in dismissing the "middle-classes" of ED and their poncey ways, also disapprove of the great unwashed in Peckham Where exactly meets such exacting standards we have yet to establish. Apart from maybe Lewisham. Bizarrely

nah - it rocks your boat. Which is the genuinely sad thing As for Lorraine King's article, it went on to say "I thought it must be a south London trend, but after talking to my son and discovering that youths in north-west London's (aka North Wheezy) Stonebridge Estate have beef with those from Neasden, I was horrified to discover this is not just a London thing but nationwide. White and Asian boys are 'repping their ends too' - in fact, many gangs are mixed." but that rather undermines your point doesn't it? Again I have never said Peckham is salubrious (although to say as the article does that Peckham itself has never been salubrious contradicts some of the posts which have recorded it's decline) but I do like it.

I've seen Dulwichmum with his arse-crack showing, plastering the front of the chicken takeaway place near Mrs Robinson's boutique.. but shhhh

"wow fat" - I don't know if that repulses me or makes me really want to go....

1-1 ... no way! Atila - I hope your heart can take all this! Edit: 22:28 -it is now!

TO go back and answer a couple of more points.. If I sound like I don't welcome debate then that is simply untrue. To again use the Irish referendum I think it's good that at least one country had the ability to showcase argument and debate around an important treaty. The fact that the Irish blew it by voting against said referendum because of anti-government sentiment, because Irish mammies "didn't want there good looking boys conscripted to a European army" Quote and a whole stew of other reasons (also including, yes, a resentment and being "expected" to vote "yes") is neither left wing, right wing or anything else. It is what it is.. Furthermore don't accuse me of not making an argument when the core of your argument is small, efficient government is best, and then not provide any solid example. The case is yours to make, not the other way around. All that said, I am prone to sentiment. This is not something I would accuse, say, Huguenot, of and yet his long and lengthy argument has not drawn any response from you. Far easier to do the predictable "Seany Sean Sean, dear wee Seany" patronising thing.

???? - if that is true it may be because having posted a lot of argument only to have it ignored, one tires. I would further argue that your viewpoint is a baseless in it's argument as mine and rooted in a different form of "sentiment" To take my last question to you... society has evolved for millenia. People on different sides of the argument have had their time. And yet government of substantial size exists everywhere. If your argument is so good, where is the evidence?

Spangles - you are of course entitled to your opinions... you just aren't entitled to "your" facts.. Don't always jump to say "I'm entitled..." - just say what you say, believe it and if people disagree they disagree. Otherwise you come across as needy The meat you "wouldn't give to a dog" is not only sustaining a large population but also supplies many London restaurants. Meat stinks.. when you have so many supplier in one area you will notice it. Do I buy meat there? Sometimes but rarely... but only because it's as far from my flat as can be whilst living in this area. Would I buy meat there instead of supermarkets. Abso fuckin lutely I'm not going to argue whether Peckham is amongst the highest gun crime areas in the Uk - I shall just ask where you are getting your information from - I'm interested in it Is Peckham vibrant - well I compared it to Anerley. Do you dispute the comparison? I hesitate to define vibrant as you will no doubt accuse me of "googling it". Some of the best days and nights of my life have been in Peckham. For an insipid person I seem to be able to strike up conversation with strangers. They have invited me to parties. I was not shot. I don't know if that makes me insipid or my hosts... Either way, we let you down in your perception of Peckham As I have said in previous emails, I make no case for Peckham being a Utopia. (oh look there is that middle ground you so despise. Most people might call it balance or even fact-based. you go with prejudice if it makes you feel better) You pride yourself on saying "how it is" when in reality your life appears to resent not being able to say "how it is" more often. Instead of joining in any community based activity (that I am aware of) you use the local community forum to spread bile whilst simultaneously dismissing residents of an area who take pride in community feel Why exactly do you feel the need to say I have problems with people with strong opinions? isn't the truth that I have a problem with you? But if that's true then you can't hide behind your pseudonym and cloak yourself around an easily-written "we". You may be the soul of kindness in reality, but as presented on here you are a squalid little person with little to contribute to anyone's life, much less the community around you. I expect a mean-spirited retort - which is, as you will no doubt point out, you right. Go for it. But I ask you to pause and wonder why you provoke such a reaction. Apart from the fact that you seem to get off on it. Which is, again, you right. But if that's true the enjoy it and stop telling people off for doing it yours Mr Insipid def: "without distinctive, interesting, or stimulating qualities; vapid: an insipid personality. " Edited for some spelling mistakes. No guarantee I caught all of 'em

I thought we might disagree ;-) ... but whilst I like the movie... the soundtrack to the Commitments is just...no!

An old Otis Redding track I've Been Loving You A Little Too Long - Tindersticks

I have often stood up for Louisa against a tide of opinion - and will probably again. But to assert that the traders on Peckham Rye are selling e-coli ridden food without any basis in fact is a step too far in my opinion. And I'm not biting Louisa's head off.. just disagreeing with her in the same strong terms she uses I can't claim to have been around in Peckham Rye's prime, but I've travelled enough to get the idea. And now it's a largely immigrant community. So be it.. it may not be chi-chi but it's pretty vibrant. It doesn't have the same end-of-the-line hopelessness of say Anerley

Having seen some of the considered, balanced posts on here it's hard to add anything ???? - when you (and you're far from alone) constantly talk of "hugely inneficient largely publicly funded public sector bodies" there really isn't anything that can be said back to that. Like the Irish in the recent referendum, a hotch-potch of various negative, paranoid emotions (even with SOME basis in truth) will always defeat reason. It's almost like the old dark-ages withcurning rationale: "She's a with - drown her! If she survives she's a witch and we'll burn her. If she drowns.. well maybe she wasn't " Is there a country ANYWHERE which has a super efficent apparatus (be it government, dictatorial or *shudder* private-run) which you aspire to?

Can you just IMAGINE if any other 2 posters (select any 2 you like) said "we are SO right and the everyone else is so wrong" - how the likes of spangles30-going-on-12 would jump up and down about how smug that seemed. Obviously debate happens and people agree sometimes but to single yourself out like that... I mean - I do agree that spangles and louisa are alike - oh yes... but beyond that The Peckham debate has raged before and will rage again so.. whatever. Apart from some people sticking their nose up at a bit of fish and deciding that everyone is therefore effectively ciminal (e-coli ridden? not in the legal profession are you Louisa?) most people who either shop there or live there (imagine! living there???) seem to be ok with it What an area was like in the past or will be like in the future is an interesting conversational pastime - but is subject to rose-tinted glasses or rampant speculation. What matters is here and now. And here and now seems fine to me. The high street isn't my destination of choice (too many people, not enough pavement) but threatened by it I'm not. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of any problems there (it's a relatively poor area and suffers the same social problems as most poor areas) but then I come from a poor area so it doesn't make me hold my nose and shudder the way it appears to with some people

David Sylvian - September A tiny, tiny song. A little thing... barely a minute. But it makes me happy to be alive Holly Palmer This is just beautiful. I first heard it when she played support to some shower at the 100 club on Oxford St - It was just her, an acoustic guitar and lot's of over-loud media types at the bar. their loss. This version is more lush obviously Tindersticks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZEwEUeSVFA Picking a sticks song is hard. So I went with one of Lady MacGabhann's favourites Lambchop - Up With People You will clap along.... yes, you will Emmylou Harris - Wrecking Ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEwQbptSnAk I'm convinced she's not of this earth. But this is lovely David Bowie - Thursday's Child I love this video.. both the song and the video a melancholy-tinged-with-hope effort about ageing Flaming Lips - Do You Realise? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvdma6tCnjw Makes me giddy.... Massive Attack - Safe From Harm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ1cACrPHdc This reminds me of Queens Sq in Bristol and one of the best gigs I ever saw Saul Williams - Black Stacey Seriously interesting character. Saw him supporting NiN and bought his album straight afterwards. He does more poetry readings than live concerts but if you get a chance to see him... here he sings it without music Scott Walker - If You Go Away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGAWtQsUymk Ne Me Quittez Pas indeed. This reminds me of a gig at the jazz cafe where this was playing loudly as tranvestites handed out free cigarettes and everyone prepared to Shag Tobacco

Keep music evil

:-$

giggirl - you can PM me the list and I'll do the necssary linkages if you like - or I can talkk you through it(it's eeeeeasyyyy when you know how... milliseconds)

(methinks this thread is soon to be deemed "not ED-specific" and cast into the lounge Did your dear old mum ever live in ED and come to a forum drinks? I've had plenty of stuff for free! As for the Dream Machine - I guess we'll find out after Saturday how this little experiment goes. I've contacted the owner about helping out so do come on down and say hello (and buy stuff!)