Absolutely fair points moos - but I had hoped that my initial post was just a gentle moderation back, explaining why people might view the church in that light. It really wasn't meant to be a dig at you. Thought it might even be humorous.. "what have the Romans ever done for us etc?". I hoped it wouldn't upset you but if it has, from the bottom of my heart (if I have one) I apologise... Muffintop - I have little belief in any other power, yet I too " try to live my life the best way I can, try to do no harm to anyone or anything living, try to see the good in people (although sometimes thats a challenge) well you get the gist" What's wrong with me!?