SeanMacGabhann

I saw this on the front page today and thought it looked quite pleasing to the eye - I haven't seen it before anyway...

Tis a nightmare living close to one of these places - but it isn't true to say nothing can be done If people choose to not shop at supermarkets but at shops which stock more local produce something could be done about it - there wouldn't be any need for articulated lorries at all hours of the morning. But I'm fighting a losing battle with that sort of talk aren't I?

I'm getting the same message on my Dell - as I knew I would. It's not really a scam tho - batterly lasts about 10 minutes. As I rarely if ever use it from the battery anyway I'm just ignoring the message and not replacing it

A "low" blow? Really? I didn't even consider it a blow much less a low one. From every utterance I have heard from Boris and the black-cab drivers who supported him they consider the pedestrianising of the that bit of Trafalgar Sq to be a crime against humanity. One cab driver was apoplectic on BBC London this weekend saying you can't even call it a square now because of what Ken did (thus illustrating how for some people the world can only be viewed as serving "the car" - I do wonder what Trafalgar Sq was called before the car was invented!)

In the spirit of keeping the debate open.. to take your points in order MM I wouldn't doubt for a second you were against section 28 - but that new mayor (name escapes me) seems to have a problem with gay people and has supported section 28 Retaining Section 28 Boris Johnson in his own words The wannabe mayor on race, sex and politics On homosexuality "Gay marriage can only ever be a ludicrous parody of the real thing." ? Daily Telegraph, 2005 "If gay marriage was OK - and I was uncertain on the issue - then I saw no reason in principle why a union should not be consecrated between three men, as well as two men; or indeed three men and a dog." ? From his book, Friends, Voters, Countrymen, 2001 "We don't want our children being taught some rubbish about homosexual marriage being the same as normal marriage, and that is why I am more than happy to support Section 28." ? Daily Telegraph, 2000 "The clerics gave us [journalists] a wigging for being so mean to the Church of England ... Why did we draw attention to tricky subjects like homosexuality, aka the Pulpit Poofs issue?" ? The Spectator, 2000 Museums: Populist exhibitions have proliferated but that in itself isn't entirely a bad thing. As for the clientele not changing - I'm presuming you mean demographically rather than numbers? Numbers are way up but if the demographic hasn't changed then who's fault is that? If we live in a time where swathes of the population bemoan the cost of everything but wouldn't even consider doing something good and free?? At least the government made the effort and did the right thing. People not visiting free museums reminds me of the same peolpe who refuse to watch a programme on BBC2 but when the same programme transfers to BBC1 it quadruples it's viewing figures.. bizaare! 3 - Well... when people were being paid less than a quid an hour before the minimum wage and around a fiver an hour thereafter - it might not lift them out of poverty but it sure made a big help (real life example being the woman who slept under my office desk every night so she could keep 3 cleaning jobs going) And if it doesn't lift them out of poverty, does the will exist for something, anything to lift them out of poverty? I would find it hard to scold someone who is working 20 hours a day to work harder to lift themselves out of poverty

walking across the North side of Trafalgar Square yesterday - looking at all the tourists bimble about and enjoying the sights - and reflecting what a traffic-choked hell it used to be. Heaven Something Boris wouldn't have done...

last night at the RFH - Tindersticks Now just a 4 piece - they were augmented by a string and brass section and played lots of the new album plus some real gems from their locker - including this one: Bloody marvellous it was

some truth in that MM, and thanks to Blair/Brown's performance in the 21st century it's almost nigh on impossible to talk about the "difference" a Labour party makes/would make. About the country being a 2 party state - would that that were even true. What the Labour party SHOULD stand for is an effective broker between raw capitalism and a fair and just society. Even THIS lot managed to introduce, despite the best efforts of almost everyone with a vested interest, a minimum wage. Paltry it may have been but it made a huge difference to a lot of people. No Tory government would ever have the balls to do it. I can't see them ditching it because of the fallout, but by God they would make sure it was never introduced on their watch ( sorry - a bit rambling and not the most eloquent post but yesterday was a long day and it's early today!) Well that has always been pretty much conservative policy. What it equates to in the real world, whether it's Thatcher, Major or Blair (ooops, see how easy it is?) is a respect for the moneyed and the status quo. For "normal" value. So whereas conservative governments introduce legislation such as Section 28, Labour governments remove it from the books (despite howls from the conservative voice-of-the-people Mail et al). Re-introducing free entry to museums and galleries - it costs money but it's a Good Thing. A civilised thing. Yes it costs money but if it's the right thing then yes things cost money. And if the bills lands to heavily on "our" shoulders (Mr and Mrs Joe Soap) then rather than squeal at the government, start taking the largest welfare-scroungers to task - the corporations and their tax-avoidance schemes. They benefit from British society's infrastructure and then as soon as they can, instead of shouldering their responsibility, as the rest of us do, they feck of to a tax haven. Scrounging toe-rags as far as I'm concerned Just as corporations have a legal obligation to extract maximum profit and value for shareholders, a conservative government holds much the same principles - never mind the pain caused. "If it isn't hurting it isn't working" isn't a slogan that a newly elected conservative government would publicly use - not after the fuss it cause last time they used it - but it is, in effect the ethos. Corporations could seek to pay their fair share of tax and represent it as value to shareholders by taking the long term view and investing in the country it comes from - but short-termism wins the day The Labour party ethos is not much in evidence so I won't mourn their departure - I may even re-enact '97 and share a drink as we kick the incumbents out of office - but when it is re-examining itself in the wilderness years it will (I hope) re-alight on the values that give it it's raison-d'etre. When it was busy in the late 90s doing things like introducing a minimum wage, the new deal etc - that's when it was most popular.

I wonder if some Republicans had the same moments of optimism when Bush was *cough* elected in 2000 "he's an intelligent guy, give him a chance"

waht used to be an Elusive Camel? Can't remember what it's called now...near Tower Bridge end of Tooley St anyway

methinks ???? has it mostly right but I would draw a different conclusion - consumer power will only get people so far. Unless people pay the real price for what they are actually using then this situation will always be with us And yes I know people will immediately man the barricades and say we all pay a fortune already etc etc but the truth is we often don't pay anywhere near enough for what we actually buy - the reason we spend so much money is that we consume too much All those layers of inefficiency that have been stripped out of organisations have left most companies with effectively 2 tiers - the poor mopes who have to deal with all of our gripes on a daily basis and the senior management raking it in. Where once upon a time the mopes could have escalated issues to layers of middle management who could then raise it with senior management we know have, at best, team leaders who stand zero chance of ever communicating anything to seniors - because they just wouldn't be listened to The world was never perfect mind you. But to take an example of an imperfect company that seems to do better than most in the modern business world - first direct seem to win the hearts and minds of many a customer - but then again they come top of complaints about cost and weathered a media hailstorm last year when they introduced monthly charges. Is there a link between what we pay and what we get... gee I dunno

I'm inclined to agree lizzy - not sure I would change to this lot mind you, but still...

Strawbs - I would guess most of us on here don't live "close" to LL - or at least probably not the buzzy end you mean For me it's really not a deal-breaker - in fact I now relish the 15 min walk down to "the strip" - and Bellenden Rd is pretty handy for many things I would say. Don't underestimate the value of being close to Peckham Rye station - as Alan points out the range of destinations can be very useful

fairly predictably, I keep an eye out for Celtic results in Scotland but was pleased to see Rangers get through last night. (side note - what is it with penalty shootuts where the team that misses the first pen always seem to come out on top in the end?)

Good to hear people openening businesses as well as closing Is this an extensiion of the place beneath the video shop and the stall on NC Rd?

What I like most about the title of this thread is the "that I've seen" bit... I've always taken "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" to not mean "well you might think it's nice but I think it's pig-ugly" but to mean "it was beautiful because, in that single moment, i saw something that no-one else saw" To take an example from a film - a lot of us have seen deer, but that scene in Stand By Me where he's alone and sees the deer, and sees not just the deer but life that has passed and what will come... that's where the beauty is. To my mind anyway ( I suppose I could have just said there is a difference between subjective beauty and objective beauty - but that isn't quite what I meant) So I agree with the beauty in most of the examples so far but I'll have to think a bit longer for some of my examples

It can be disheartening can't it? I think a few of us have been in that position on certain threads before.. I like a challenge tho.

another 3 hours yesterday - a few more missions just to open things out a bit and the story appears to be better written/acted than before but it's isn't all about that - the living breathing city is.... stunning. The amount of "things" that just happen is incredible... some random examples here

louisian quoted: ""Landfill indie"" genius I spotted it in an article somewhere this week and it so encapsulates what passes for indie these days - kooks my arse

you mean it's not just me that does this!??? Phew I have seen some gems but can't remember any now - will report back tho

indeed he's a tough little cookie as well I noticed - for all his "who me?" little boy lost looks (steady, Annasfield!)

some inane ramblings from luvvies but also some spot-on comments here: Various Londoners talking about Boris The comparison with Dubya is particularly pertinent - don't be fooled by the loveable clown who will employ the right people schtick (who would London's equivalent of Rumsfield and Cheney be anyway?)

I forgot about the Torres thing Keef. Has anything come out about the whys and wherefores? Very strange decision I didn't mean to suggest that Liverpool only came back in second half just because Chelsea went awol. Liverpool found all the right gears and were looking the better team - it's just with Chelsea not at their best Liverpool should have used that spell to win the game. But I'll say no more because I know how it feels just after eleminiation - on the plus side at least ye have won the thing a few times.. unlike Arsenal

respect for Lampard yes.. like him? no The fact that the game's outcome wasn't certain until the end made it entertaining, rather than the football itself. Liverpool could have nicked it in the second half when Chelsea seemed to go awol but in the end I think the better team won (and I say that as someone who wanted a Liverpool v Barca final) I haven't heard much since about the way Grant was shoved out of the way by Gerrard. Yes Gerrard was keen to restart play but I can't help feeling if it was any other manager more respect would have been shown

know what you mean PGC - but how interested are thieves in voting - most regular citizens don't seem that bothered if turn-outs are anything to go by Plus when the "real" person turned up to vote after the thief there would be some kind of... to-do? I guess if it was the prevelant we would hear more about it Voted at 7:15 this morning - I'm a bit worried about the state of the boiler at the church atop Barry Rd if the noise rattling through the building is anything to go by. Nice people in there tho'...