SeanMacGabhann

Only thing I would really disagree with Asset is it being any closer to Crystal Palace than East Dulwich. I made same mistake with FHT & Herne really

I want to continue this discussion because it genuinely interests me - but I'm loathe to do it at the moment because it seems like ten of us stacked up against one person. (even if that person admits saying some contentious things and then threatens to leave when people rise to the bait. every time ;-) ) So... shall we, for the moment, remove Reiki from the debate and return to the programme in question. The first episode showed lot's of average-Joe and Josepehines with their beliefs being shot down by a slightly supercilious Prof. The second one appears to be looking at some bigger issues. The prof. in question also has a well-known bee in his bonnet about religion (which is not unrelated to the current show) I don't happen to like what I've seen about HIM, but I do pretty much agree with most of what he is saying. It's all very well having our subjective beliefs but when our national leaders admit to being "think with your gut kind of guys" and taking us to war, not on evidence but on beliefs then surely it's a subject that should interest us all??

Even with my limited knowledge I don't expect the practice of Reiki and Scientology to be REMOTELY similar (I love putting those caps in - CitizenEd gets upset if I don't). I know that you have no wish to indoctrinate anyone and you have no plans to open an office on Tottenham Court Rd The point I'm trying to make is that the defence of both sounds very similar. It sounds as if you are as sceptical about Scientology as I am - however it's the foundations, philosophy, whatver you call it which underpins them appears to be.... trying to choose a non-prejudicial word... ach I'll say it - flaky The whole "I have seen results and helped many people" thing I can get - but the belief system behind it.. hmmm. Why would I need to believe that some vague spirit from Atlantis or possibly the stars, channeled by 3 people in the 20th century into a "cohesive" philosophy before I can be healed? That's the bit I don't get

Am I being mean if I ask what that assumption is based on? Looking at the site you suggested I read: "When you read about Reiki in books or on the Internet you will find several different theories about where Reiki came from: the stars, Lemuria, Atlantis, Egypt, India, Tibet etc. What we do know for a fact is that Reiki was "rediscovered" in Japan by Dr Mikao Usui during the beginning of the 20th century." The stars? Atlantis? And then this from the official Scientology website: "In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results." I know it seems as if we are all having a go, and I guess that's even true, but it is obviously something you feel heartfelt about so I'm just keen to understand the differences? Can you least see that us skeptics might have a reason for being confused ?

is it really a clue? Wow - I apologise and take it back. I assumed the Starbucks reference was... well now that I think about it I'm not sure

Sounds like the type of thing that Tom Cruise might suggest...

I watched the game and felt quite sorry for Tony Soprano - the fans were giving him a kicking on Five Live afterwards saying he's a nice guy but a poor tactician. He certainly looked isolated on the touchline. Injuries play their part but there was enough talent out there to do something other than whatver tactics were in play.

That, sir Mockney, is a fake clue and will upset Dulwichmum

I've definitely been outed there - I overthink the whole leaving the Guardian on the bus thing. People flock to the free newspapers so I often think if I have finished the Guardian and leave it for others to read I am doing a Good Thing? But clearly not - I shall endeavour to do my bit to keep the 40 tidy from here on in. So where were you on the bus?

Hi Jeremy Ron and Emma got fed up of being turfed out of the EDT and Mag with the comedy club so bought the Hob some while back with plans to convert the room upstairs to a proper theatre - posting on their website details below. I think the bar will be unaffected and they plan music sessions there as well It's close enough to me for me to consider it still part of LL anyway - :)-D Hi folks. The comedy club has closed for the summer to allow the long awaited refurbishment to take place. We are hoping to reopen for the first weekend in October depending on the level of horror the builders uncover. It is, however, going to be seriously worth the wait with a gorgeous new bar, gleaming and plentiful new toilets upstairs and down, more seating, more tables, much more legroom and a ceiling that won't look as if it's about to fall down ....again! In the meantime we are planning a lot of live music and events, which you can keep track of below while the bar downstairs patiently waits it's turn to be prettified.. and prettified it will be! Have a look at the NEWS page of the website during the next few monthe to follow the progress and let us know what you think. We've already confirmed some great acts like Stewart Lee, Simon Munnery, Simon Bligh, Howard Read and Nick Wilty to name a few for October so come back and see us!

Touch?, Nero.... (tu)

South End I would say either The Wood House (but that is KINDA out of the way for both parties) The Plough maybe? After that you are looking at Forest Hill. I quite like the Hob but tat is undergoing changes so can't say what the bar itself is like at the mo If you can make it to Forest Hill Rd easily then 2 buses from Crystal Palace serve the FHT, and The Herne

Tell them what you believe the problem to be and say if they believe it too it will make the fix easier

I did feel for you last night Jah - trekking up to the other Lane, getting soaked through and seeing a performance like that. Oh - and then having to trek back to SE22 - please post to let us know you are ok!

Alan You beat me too it - We must have been close on that bus - she came and sat next to me afterwards

Nero. . I think we agree then. . For the most part anyway. Now let me make you a cup of tea and calm you down of course if the environment as half as screwed as we are told then the media wont have much choice but to return to it. New orleans. . Extreme flooding in this country. . Asian tsunami s. . All have precedent but are we convinced this is freak weather and things will return to normal soon? Now. . One sugar or two?

To be fair to cwald, one could accuse her of many things but a single issue gal she aint. i think a lot of issues have awareness campaigns but this particular one hits more media buttons. Although you are better qualified to comment on that but air travel is in my opinion also getting a high profile because like car usage its proliferation is having not just a negative effect on the wider environment but on the much more local physical level. Living under a flight path was once rare enough to not worry about. Now it affects many more people directly and the realisation is dawning that it cant continue indefinitely. Its early days yet on this one i reckon

All true nero of course. And most of up would do well if we managed half of that list. . But we should try shouldn t we?

Helen . . I have seen your posts on. . Err. . Another thread but dont be put off my that discussion. Enjoyable tho the debate is long afore i joined this forum i found the community feel around ed to be great. Since joining the forum its been even better.

I know people who have bought perfume off those guys on oxford street and genuinely think it is dior that sounds condescending i know. It is true tho. keef is right. Its not nice to be dismissive. Far better to live and let live and yet. . There are surely things we can be dismissive of? I dont want to name any specific and redundant beliefs but certain beliefs in the not too recent past did rely on a lot of people taking a "no proof needed squire if you say so. . " stance . proof is all we have in this life. Any thing else is whistling in the dark. Again that doesnt mean that for example reiki does not work. If it works ill have it. But i need to believe in a philosophy for it to work? Really?? people i am very very close to believe in one, some, or most of the topics mentione in the show. I love them dearly. But they are wrong and i can see how damaging their belief is. To take one example a family has been abandoned to visit some guy in peru. Bet the kids will appreciate that in years to come. . And for what? She thinks this guy will enlighten her. She believes it so it may become true for her. But she has left others in her wake

I have my own doubts about the effectiveness of the protest but fair play cwald for taking a stand if the jury is not yet in on climate change then it is surely wrapping up but even if it were proved beyond a shadow of a doubt some people would still sneer and be damn ed. . I like to travel but have definitely started to say no more often than yes.

I watched the programme and have to say that I had heard a lot about Dawkin's attitude - he didn't seem THAT bad but nor did he seem like someone I would want to go for a pint with, Then again I didn't fancy a pint with anyone else on there Madworld74 - the Independent's comments chime with others I've seen but I'm not sure that it paints Dawkins in a bad light. He seems open to the idea of any of these beliefs as long as they are able to prove themselves in any kind of meaningful way. If, to take the case of the major-league water dousers, they are not able to between them locate any water in a measured experiment then what leg do they have to stand on. Shooting fish in a barrel reflects more on the participants than it does Dawkins IMO Similarly Neil Spencer, currently astrologist at The Observer and formerly editor of NME, just was not interested in any kind of discussion abliut "well we gave different people of different starsigns all the same horoscope (Capricorn) and asked them if they felt it related to them." - About half of themsaid it did half didn't(including the sole Capricorn!) So, what is it for again? I'm not lumping your particular baby in with water-dousing or astrology but given what you have said about plenty of demonstrable cases it will be interesting viewing. Has anyone on here read John Diamond's book, written just before he died of cancer and his related diatribe about both "conventional" and "alternative" medicine? There is only that which works or doesn't - anything else is a sales-pitch

Oh no - the embarrasing thread.. (and how do I qualify based on Bmouth stints) And are we talking forumite or poster - because there are some posters I can imagine not liking if I met them but wiss them if they didn't post As for people I've met it's now too many to count the ones I like - disproportionately high number of ultra-sound folk in one place tho

Aha ! (oops, too keen) I deliberately didn't mention any papers and made the specific point about how this doesn't really differe from the frightening attacks I have read about in what sociologists are calling "driver-on-driver" violence Which didn't get replied to. (harrumph)

How was the wedding on Sunday Jah? And did you make it on time? Looked like you were in a rush to me!