Afraid I was the one who first mentioned supermarkets - my point is that there is widespread complaint about children in all sorts of public places, whereas I think the only way they can learn to behave is to be taken out. And yes, I'd agree it's pretty unreasonable to expect supermarkets to be child-free. There is a wider context than the posts you and the OP have written complaining about 'too many children' out and about in ED and wanting 'adult only' facilities - obviously, I'm not making accusations about you, but your comments have to be seen in that general light. So what is it you think we need? No children at all in pubs/caf?s/restaurants or just only well-behaved ones? Anyway, to your point. Is it expecting children to be mini adults to sit in a caf? or a pub? I don't think so, per se. As I said before, we need to bear in mind that small children just won't behave well for long, and time visits accordingly to be fair both to our children and to other people, but my experience (purely of my own child and those of friends) is that they do enjoy brief visits to caf?s and short meals out. I also think ????'s point is a valid one, it's not too much to ask children to allow their parents a pleasant drink or lunch out and to expect them to behave themselves.