Moos

Because he would then have to die in it.

Those eggs look far too fresh, LM.

It strikes me that one of the difficulties is that we are a country moving or being pulled in a couple of different directions. In one corner, we have the mores of business, which are often referred to as Anglo-American - here, presenteeism and the long-hours culture are all-important, socialising after work is vital for progress and flexible workers are at a natural disadvantage. In America, maternity leave is 6 or 8 weeks. Equality there really means sameness - there are few maternity (or paternity) benefits. I read somewhere (sorry, cannot find it now but will try) that in America women are more strongly represented in senior positions, and the conclusion that the study drew was that European women's legislative rights in some ways strengthen the glass ceiling. In contrast, UK mothers have entitlements to long maternity leave with some pay, similar to (although in some ways less than) women in European countries. But in many other European countries (and I need to be careful here, as this is mostly perception and anecdotal evidence) working hours are shorter than in the UK, and it is seen as normal and not detrimental to a career for people to spend their evenings at home. I think a lot of the tension arises from trying to work a legislative set of rights that fits with a culture of putting family first within a working culture which prioritises long working hours and drinking with work buddies. That said, all of my comments above tend to suggest that working mothers are all business people with careers, which of course is nonsense. Most working mothers work because they must (and KatsuQueen makes a very good point above) in order to pay for their families to live, as throughout history people have. Would it be fair to say that 150 years ago all mothers worked other than those who didn't have to - and those hired nannies?

I'm with the ladies (and Jezza) on this one. When responding to a particular point or series of points within a post it makes sense to be clear which aspects of a long post you are referring to. Agree that it can be annoying if badly done, of course - but that is true of almost any debating style. For example, deliberately mis-interpreting others' comments and responding with unnecessary aggressiveness really winds me up.

2nded, or is it 3rded on the Australian roll-on sunscreen - so much easier to get on than the squirty kind. And H&M do hats that tie on - if you have a clever hat-hating toddler it doesn't help but surely even a 9-month-old Houdini can't get out of a tied-on hat?? Or am I just naive...

Inspired by this thread the Moos clan also spent Saturday morning at the Southbank, and we had a fantastic time - heard Big Ben chime much to the delight of Moosling (those of you that know me will understand why he's completely obsessed with it), rode on the carousel, got pleasurably scared by the human statues, scooted around like a maniac and the rest. Took nunheadmum's tip on the RFH caf?, which was excellent - little simple child-sized sandwiches for 90p, nice soup and bread, salt-free crisps and everyone happy eating on the sunny terrace.

Phew! Nice to see this thread ending with smiles on all sides.

OK, thanks TQ.

TonyQuinn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- My view is that if you don't believe > in the political process and have no intention of > voting, then don't bother commenting and > subjecting the rest of the world to your lack of > interest. > Politics matters! Cynicism is one thing, but what on earth gives you the gall loftily to suggest that the people commenting on politics on this forum are not planning to vote?

Is it a new thing, adults wanting to watch Dr. Who? Or did our parents like it too? I can't remember.

All little children (even good sleepers, as mine is now) do go through periods of bad sleep, and absolutely - who wouldn't want to give their child a cuddle in the night when they need it? Even when my other half wasn't working and I was, I always wanted to be the one that got up, it just felt right. The difference for me is that when you yourself are generally reasonably well rested a few weeks of broken sleep is absolutely fine and it's a pleasure to be able to be there for your child. Belle, I'm sure when you yourself have built up a better reserve of sleep and are not so stretched, you'll feel really differently about the night-time disturbances. Don't feel bad, you're only human.

For me I'd say the key is canadianlisa's comment 'if it's not bothering you and it is working for your family'. First of all, it's really important to know what you're going through is normal and healthy (for your baby at least), so you can stop worrying, and perhaps also stop thinking that you're unlucky, and your baby is the Worst Sleeper In The World, and Why Did It Have To Happen To You. But I do believe there comes a point when the misery of real long-term sleep deprivation is just too much and you have to find a way to make it stop. The years are short, but the memories I have of my son's early months are of a lot of unhappiness and exhaustion, and of not liking the somewhat unhinged, tearful, helpless person they turned me into. I wish I had enjoyed his early months, but I didn't and I feel sad about it. I don't know what the solution is, but I tried the grin and bear it, and it wasn't great.

Property prices have gone up and up around E&C - have a good friend with a well-paying job who wanted to move from Stockwell and couldn't begin to afford Peckham or E&C.

I got 50% Green, and the rest split between Labour, LibDem and, um, UKIP (must look up which one that was!). But I chose 8 categories and was getting very bored of the cryptospeak by the end. Really struggled to find a single Education statement that I liked. Caning, anyone? I assume that was the BNP, stupid amateurs that they are.

SimonM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dear Ms Bovine Utterances > > If you really cannot distinguish between 'effete' > and 'foetus', then you are in for a lifetime of > confusion :)): well until middle age anyway B) How dairy you be so speciesist. I was only being foecetious.

Come to think of it, we got a super-cheap one from IKEA - has had some serious smearings, and still going strong.

Hey Newbie You sound exactly as I felt when I was expecting my son - confused and having had far too much information thrown at me! But you don't sound thick at all. The short answer is, it depends. On a really hot day, your baby will be sleeping in just a nappy, and on cold winter days a vest under a warm sleepsuit under a sleeping bag or blanket. But probably for an average room of around 19-20 degrees in summer a light short-sleeve sleepsuit under a swaddle blanket will be absolutely enough, or even just a vest underneath. It's really important for little babies not to over-heat, their hands should feel a little cool to the touch. I do think the swaddle will suffice as a sheet. You might well need several fitted (3 or 4??) sheets as they poo all over the place, and you'll definitely need a waterproof under-sheet to protect the mattress. I definitely recommend sleeping bags - not sure if you can use them for newborns, but at least from 3 months. My son is nearly 3 and still sleeps in his - the very lightest sheet-style ones in summer (with nothing else on) and warm ones in winter. There's also practicality for those messy, sleep-drugged nighttime changes... I've used a small undersheet which can be quickly whipped off if pooed on, and have heard nighties recommended as easier to deal with to change nappies although haven't tried them myself. I hope that's helpful and that I've remembered all this correctly - if not I'm sure someone with more recent experience will correct me. Best of luck! Moos

How odd, our MacLaren (with extendable handles) seems OK for my 6'3" other half? An Urban Mountain does sound suitably butch, though! Big rugged wheels, bar handle and none of your namby-pamby girly handles, solid and very heavy iron frame, tiny turning circle, comes in mud brown... perfect. We have a very elderly double Urban Mountain which is a bitch to fold and I wouldn't even try to get it on a bus, but perhaps the singles are better?

Middle age starts tomorrow, and has done for years. I'm enjoying Simon admitting to being effete, though.

Gwod, excellent post - a very good point.

Best of luck in your move and settling into your new home, Shosh and Tosh and kids. May you be very happy. Sorry I never got a chance to get to know you better - but please stay in touch with the Forum, and invite us all over for a fall party!

There's a deckchair in my sack if you need it, lb. Karter can get his own pastries, tch. Ooh look, my watch can tell the time in ten different places. Cos I can't count.

*hic* Just a splash. Baby bath thermometers are useful, aren't they? Cos I find it difficult to tell whether water is warm or not.

But of course, lb, help yourself. Coconut water and Appleton's?

*pops up over horizon a la Lawrence of Arabia* *gradually comes into focus and appears to be dragging a huge sack through the sand* *opens sack to pull out huge parasol (how did it fit in there?), hammock, cooler box and sunglasses* *settles down with large icy drink* What need of inventions when I can see the azure sea sparkling at my feet and flirting with the white sand? Apart from the above-mentioned items, of course...