LondonMix

Farfusanabua-- your 10 posts on this thread are virtually all of the 12posts you have ever made on the ED forum. I hope you don't mind me asking but are you in anyway affiliated with Southwark Council? If so, can you please openly declare what that relationship is?

Made me feel ill. Both her and her husband have devoted themselves to public service working until very recent,y for Oxfam and Save the Children charities respectively. What a horrific loss. I'm so very saddened for her children. I can't think about their loss without shedding tears.

No I wasn't the first person to use the term, it was another poster who said they were more of an advisory service. I am not arguing that Southwark is financially responsible-- I want to know how this happened (corruption, incompetence, etc) and for the person responsible within Southwark never to work on any building control project again. Not only should what has happened to Wandle residents not be allowed to reoccur but imagine if this happened to the new secondary school or the new primary school. Its unconscionable! Building control provide a public service and in this instance they appear to have badly failed. Of course Building Control isn't a clerk of works but they make specific visits at critical times in the build to ensure the most sensitive elements of the build are executed to code.

I agree the short term consequences are much more certain than the long term. But even the long term situation is much more likely to be worse than better. Azira Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The long term potential economic consquences of > leaving or staying are debateable, theoretical and > crystal ball gazing. You could construct a > plausible argument for economnic depression for > either side of the fence. > > The short term economic consequences are > guaranteed. This is not a matter of debate, this > is based on what is actually written into EU law > at the moment and the shutdown of certain markets > that would follow. Based on the previous > experience of 2008, the consequences of this is > reasonably certain to predict. > > I'm not saying people shouldn't vote out, I'm > saying they need to be aware of the short term > consequences of it. If you're prepared to risk it > (and don't need to rely on any investment income > in the next few years, such as pensions) then go > for it. Just do it with your eyes open.

I always found it strange that the UK doesn't have gp style pediatricians. I loved my oediatrician growing up- she had photos of all her charges on her wall (me included) and treated my for 18 years. She was a real family doctor which was so reassuring both for me and my parents when I was sick.

Haha-- I get that feeling a lot too.

Agree-- one of my experiences with Southwark building control in 2013 involved the inspector forcing the builder to re-do a run of drainage 4 times before signing it off. That's why I find the idea that they are just there to advice totally preposterous. Thanks for continuing to pursue this. buddug Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi rendelharris. It's normal nowadays for local > authorities to work together under what is called > the LABC (local authority building control) > partnership - google it. One council outside the > area - often where the architects or developers > are based - approves their plans for the host > council and submits them - i.e. in this case, to > the host council Southwark - where the work is > taking place, and then the host council takes over > to do the building control and sign-off of the > works. What that entails, who knows. In my > experience of building control, with regards to a > local restaurant I helped with, they are very > stringent, as LondonMix said. Anything wrong, and > you have to redo it. However, now, in this case, > Southwark is claiming building control sign-off is > all very airy-fairy. Very odd.

Tourists? We really are moving up in the world :)

I'm assuming OP is American. Pediatricians in the US are generalists like GPs but specialise in infants and children.

Taxes increased last time as did borrowing. In all likelihood it will be a combination of both of them though the debt markets are likely to be less friendly due to all of the uncertainty. The recent tax cuts (via the increase in the tax free allowance) certainly wouldn't be sustainable. Anyhow, its not just the initial 1-2 year recession. The UK will most likely will be on a permanent slower growth trajectory than before going forward in the longer term due to the loss not only of free trade with the EU but also the loss of the 50 trade agreements the EU has with the rest of the world that the UK was able to benefit from.

Its not a threat. To keep service levels unchanged during a recession you either have to increase the rate of taxes (which will be falling due to reduced income and business earnings) or increase the national debt. I'm not sure why people seem so blase about provoking a recession. Its horrible. People lose their jobs, taxes increase, poverty increases, services have to be scaled back. My own firm already has announced that if the Brexit vote moves forward they'll have to let go of staff due to the anticipated contraction in investment activity for between 12-24 months. Vote how your conscience tells you to vote but don't underestimate what it will cost if the country votes to Leave.

Exactly Blah Blah. Immigrants go where there is a shortage of work not the other way around. Anyhow, I can't link the regional stats as its a pdf download but here is the paper's title: BRIEFING PAPER Number SN06077, 26 May 2016 Migration Statistics In most regions outside of London Eastern European migrants account for less than 2% of the population (between 1-1.5% is typical and is only 0.8% in the North East). In London the figure is 3.5%. In absolute numbers of course London and the South East have circa 1/3rd of total Eastern European migrants which makes sense as this is where most jobs are generated.

Louisa I hear you but there is a regional breakdown- I'll post it in the morning- and outside of London Eastern European migrants typically make up about 1 percent of the population outside of London. There is just no way huge swathes of h country have genuinely been impacted economically though I do believe people are being sincere which is what truly saddens me. Whenever there are social or economic problems facing a country, immigrants or minorities are always blamed regardless of how faulty the logic. The UK is not unique. This is happening in the U.S. and has happened in Russia, Germany etc both historically and in modern times, under democracies, fascisism and socialism. Hard working immigrants are an easy scapegoat. Fear in the working classes is being inflamed by a very cynical portion of the right wing political establishment for issues that really have to do with a lack of investment in the U.k outside of London, the impact of globalisation on Western industry and a lack of government investment in public services. It's such a cheap and easy trick to blame immigrants for social issues that have virtually nothing to do with them and it tragically works every. single. time.

Outside of London, migrants make up an even smaller portion of the population that the UK average.

Louisa-- EU immigrants make up 5% of the population (including children, retirees, stay at home parents etc). 2% of these are from Eastern Europe. There is only so much impact such a small number of people can have on wages. The view is based more of fear than reality. Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not sure if anyone has had chance to watch the > BBC2 show currently on "Britain & Europe: the > immigration question"?, but it's been very > interesting. > > When you compare London, a city which is hugely > affluent in a general sense as well as being > comfortable with the benefits of immigration, it's > no wonder that the debate around this aspect of > brexit becomes baffling to those middle class left > of centre internationalists (many of whom are > probably fortunate enough to own their own homes). > But then you look just outside of the capital, > and you see communities where low skilled UK > workers are being forced to compete with others > from inside the EU for those jobs, which in turn > breeds resentment. The point was made by one > commentator about how a wealthy London family > benefit from hiring EU nannies at competitive > wages, whilst out in the wider UK jobs ordinarily > done by UK workers is now hugely wage competitive > which is creating competition and forcing wages > downwards. > > It's too easy to judge people from your ivory > tower, but I beg of you to at least look at the > bigger picture before you judge these people and > accuse them of being bigots. > > Louisa.

??? Jules-and-Boo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > so, as being of the EU, we contribute money to the > EU. This would be used towards funding the debts > of the country needing bailing out....bt we > wouldn't bail them out directly. oh no. Cameron's > agreed that. > > it's laughable / very scary how different people's > opinions are and the varied levels of trust people > have in the EU governemnt / our own government.

How after agreeing to this point would the EU every force the UK to pay against its will. This point is totally moot. robbin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No. Read the article (and many others). It's > nothing like as simple as you suggest.

Intersting list. On the leave side I keep hearing the idea of wanting to be in charge and lead (including on this thread) as driving the compulsion to leave. I personally can't relate to that burning desire. It kind of reminds me of that quote from Haruki Murakami's novel: Everyone, deep in their hearts, is waiting for the end of the world to come. Its like a desire to break something or be the first to start the destruction of something almost for the sake of it. Human kind gets restless with the status quo from time to time.

Fair enough. I can see genuinely wanting sovereignty for its own sake. My family isn't prepared to pay the economic costs involved with that but each person values it differently and there is no right or wrong there. Louisa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > LM - Control of the driving seat and the all > important direction the car is headed in. > > Louisa.

Can someone who is Leave please explain to me what they think there is to gain being as specific as possible? I really still don't get it.

The UK has global trade deals via the EU-- 50 of them with others in pipeline including Canada and on top of that the free trade access to the EU. That's far more than most single countries have on their own (like Australia and Switzerland which have circa 15 trade agreements). Its the size of the EU trading block that allows for so many global trade agreements to exist. I'm not sure I follow the logic that because the country has held a referendum, the only logical choice is to vote out because we've already caused so much uncertainty in the markets just by holding the vote. Is that what you are saying? I personally know of 125m of investment deals that will go forward with a Remain vote. Brexit clauses are being written into to contracts that are otherwise ready to be executed so I don't believe the markets will be depressed if the vote is Remain. Anyhow, how would the economic consequences of Leaving not be much worse? Can someone please explain what exactly there is to gain. I mean real benefits. The UK already participates in the best of the EU (the trade block- which even those on the Leave side want to maintain access to) and is completely disconnected from the worst of it (the Eurozone / Euro). The only thing else is EU immigration and EU legislation. What specifically would you change and what do you believe would be the benefits?

Yep, he's a hypocrite of the worst kind. Someone who would demonize a portion of their own family heritage for ambition is the scariest kind of political animal. His only true conviction is attaining power.

And I do agree the UK can negotiate new trade deals, I just don't think we can do it significantly faster than other countries and I don't think it will be on equal or better terms than what a large trading block like the EU has been able to achieve. I think the UK will do good deals for the relative size of its market (which is much smaller than the EU) and it will take the normal amount of time (i.e. years) to conclude them (all 51) It sounds like you are voting leave in part in the hope that it will precipitate the end of the EU as a whole. Am I right in reading that in your posts?

Interesting-- what do you think is going to cause the economy to stall if we Remain specifically? Also, you mentioned long term pain in a different post. Given that Britain doesn't have the Euro and doesn't pay for Eurozone bailouts, I really don't get what the downside is despite the dysfunction. Rook Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 2) Secondly, I have my own views which link back > to my thoughts around a new world of Euro > scepticism. I genuinely feel that the EU is a > failed experiment. Even if we Remain investment > will still stall and the economy will enter a long > protracted position of low growth/recession > anyway. I genuinely feel that if we vote to Leave > it will be the end of this system that is not > working (look at all the economies now) and there > will be a wider move and renegotiation on trade in > Europe. I have alot of confidence in Britains > ability to lead not be led, and I wont be > surprised if there was a leave vote to see Cameron > et al step forward immediately with a concrete > plan. For me the question is do we recognise all > this now and plan /regrow/invoke positive change > or do we put a sticking plaster over it and remain > simply afraid of an unknown. For me the unknown > can be positive not just negative

Rook-- you can't have an emergency plan formulated in isolation. Whatever policies the new government led by Boris would want to implement will still need to be negotiated with other countries. That they might be formulating an agreed proposal is a first step but hardly anything that would allow them to remove the uncertainty surround the situation in short order.