LondonMix

Are you aware of the acute shortage of secondary school places that will impact Southwark over the next few years? If you've seen the data and still feel the same way, then fair enough but if you haven't, you might want to read it before opposing the creation of the secondary school.

Cora, if you read on the sentence is asking them to join their efforts to prevent the primary school opening on the site. Later in the letter Victoria thanks James not only for starting the campaign for the secondary but for his efforts on the successful ED Harris school that will be opening on the police station site. I think its actually unfair to characterise her letter as making out it was Labour's initiative.

I think since the early Academy program was associated with helping to raise standards in inner city schools, there remains a slight stigma among some. However, most schools are free schools / academies these days. I don't think Southwark has a single LA secondary anymore so I imagine that will change overtime. My guess is its less popular because its single sex. In the debate about the new proposed secondary, there appeared to be overwhelming support for ensuring the new secondary is co-ed.

If someone wants to delete a post, shouldn't they be able to? It feels wrong to repost it in the way you have peristalsis.

Same- if I leave it will be back to another city or more likely to the US.

Sorry, I was always talking about their spec-- ie the houses I liked to. My house was a two storey ground and first floor extension with a double loft conversion and a total gut refurb. I've talked about it before on the forum. Not to say it was higher spec but just a different amount of work.

Yes, that's entirely true. Once you go beyond the basic spec they did the price increases exponentially.

I don?t necessarily disagree that extensions can cost much more but the cost is as much a function of size as it is of quality. That house on Crystal Palace Rd linked to added at most 120sft (I know what they look like unextended). Excluding the cost of the k!tchen, lighting and flooring, I am pretty sure they didn?t spend more than 60k on that ground floor extension. ? The rough costing for ground floor extension building work is 1,800 psm for the basic build so in their case roughly 22k including VAT including electrics, plumbing, and decorating ? Add to that a max of 8k for the bifold doors and velux windows ? They probably did under floor heating?2k ? They probably added in the ground floor loo as part of the work- 2k ? They probably need a new boiler for the increased size of the house- 3k (max) ? Garden work- 5k ? If they used an architect to project manage as well as draw up the plans-- 5k ? Planning fees, measurement surveys, build over agreements with Thames Water, engineering drawings, building control fees and partywall agreements?6k ? Contingency of 10% - 5k ? Total cost circa 58k

50k for a double loft and 60k for a side extension is pretty standard cost for the size of the jobs at the link. Of course that doesn't include the fixtures and fittings.

James, not only have I contacted the EFA, I believe Tessa Jowell has raised similar questions with David Laws about how this application was ever approved as there was no campaign for it gathering specific support for this proposed school in Nunhead. Do you care to share the details of that application for transparency to clarify how Harris complied with the legal framework and guidance? I can't believe you can see a petition that has climbed to almost 400 signatures as "no one asking Harris not to use the site". What expression of community desire could make it more clear that the primary school is not wanted on the hospital site? You can point the finger at Southwark all you want but that does not justify Harris' opening the school in Dulwich. It just doesn't. At best its two parties acting badly and everyone ignoring what's best for the people they serve. Harris should fight for the site they want in Nunhead or find another suitable site in Nunhead (assuming the original application that was approved for that area stands up to scrutiny).

I agree with Bob. I think the ideal is a good social and ethnic mix in a school. A school that is all one thing is less than ideal but its not something I would be worried about. People who tend to the only "fill in the blank" are very adaptable in my experience. I am almost always the onlyor one of very few women in my industry. I don't even notice anymore much less feel uncomfortable with that.

The original application approved for Nunhead was already via a very unorthodox (if not illegal) application of the rules. No, to try to stretch that to a mandate to open a primary school in Dulwich is awful. James, Harris is an education charity. Whatever, ego is involved in this battle, they need to step back and look at their original mission statement and see common sense and withdraw their interest on the hospital site. One thing I respect about Habs is that they refuse to open a school unless they have both community support and broadbased political support. Why can't Harris behave the same way? Why battle the community in such a fashion?

Yes, they may have had to spend another 50-100k dealing with modernising it more generally. I bought an old wreck and trust me its very expensive if you have to get all new timber sash windows etc (weeps)

To be fair, they probably intended to stay. Selling and moving to cheaper area and using the unanticipated increase in value in your house to have a better quality life isn't something I can be mad at anyone for. For all we know, this might allow one of the two to start a business or live mortgage free and work less. They clearly weren't developers. Just people who happen to buy and sell at the right time after doing a lot of hard work.

Yes, unless there were other issues with the house, I think 100-120k is what they spent and the market has moved since...

James-- why don't you post the Harris application here for transparency. The DfE could not have approved a school to be created in East Dulwich based on the current situation and Harris's own statements on the matter are clear the school was approved for Nunhead by the DfE. I would like to see on what basis in the application you believe the DfE have sanctioned the opening of a school in the Dulwich area. Do you agree to share the information (which will likely become public via a FOI request in due course)? Otherwise, I find your contention impossible to believe based on the information known to date.

Not really. Those houses have been extended on the ground florr and had double loft conversions but the original structure wasn't large. There are much larger houses on Upland Road, Friern Road, Underhill and Overhill and even Oakhurst not to mention Mundania and the large houses on Crystal Palace (I viewed over 100 houses when we were buying in the area and have lots of friends so have seen pretty much allt he housing stock in SE22). Pre-extension these would have been bog-standard 3-bed homes of circa 1,000- 1,100 sft which is pretty average. More and more homes in the area are undergoing these types of extensions so in 10 years time most homes will actually be 4-5 beds measuring 1,600-1,800 sqft. To do extensions like this costs circa 110k assuming nothing else is wrong with the house. When you factor in the cost of moving, it makes sense for most people to extend rather than move these days. The stamp duty alone is tens of thousands (50k for a 1m quid property) before you factor in the higher purchase price as well. My husband and I have done both ground floor and loft in our house and it makes the house seem so much bigger.

Hi James, It is actually part of the guidelines regarding free schools not to locate new schools in areas where it would create surpluses. So just because Harris cannot find a viablie site in Nunhead in no-way suggests they should get the Dulwich hospital site. In fact, the guidelines suggest quite the opposite given the existing projected surplus in the Dulwich area and this isn't my opinion but rather the official legal framework. Without this legal framework the free school system is nothing but chaos. I think you would be better served pushing to find a site in Nunhead rather than burdening the Dulwich area with a primary school the community neither needs nor wants that compromises the much needed and much desired secondary school.

The zoning issue is separate from the topic of this thread. James is telling the community to drop the point about the Harris primary and focus on what he feels is a more serious threat to the secondary school. He believes the NHS will try to convince residential developers that they will get permission for residential use if they bid on the land, increasing its value so that the EFA can't afford to either buy as much of it or any of it potentially in a bidding war. How serious a threat this is at this point is hard to determine. If it is a serious threat I don't see why the community can't push for only a secondary as well as specific guidance from Southwark that residential planning permission won't be granted. They are two separate issues that don't preclude one another. There is no need to drop the campaign for only a secondary school and health services on the Dulwich Hospital site. The other point James is trying to make is that Southwark (which is Labour led) is essentially forcing Harris on to the Dulwich Hospital site by refusing to rezone Harris' preferred site which is on the Nunhead border. The land in question is Metropolitan Open Land near Harris's all girls secondary school on the Nunhead / ED border. There are several issues with the claim James is making here: 1. It's irrelevant to the point at hand as there is no need to build a primary school in Dulwich to serve Nunhead given the projected surplus in Bellenden and Dulwich that can already deal with Nunhead overflow. So even if the claim is true, its not a justification for using the Hospital site. 2. Renata has spoken to Harris (as she confirmed earlier on this thread) and there is no active plan to use the site and no plans have been submitted for approval 3. Metropolitan Open Land is the city equivalent of greenbelt land. The threshold to get approval is very high and requires approval from the Mayor amongst others so is not something Southwark has full control over.

A number of houses have sold for 1m and did so from late 2013. What seems to no longer be possible is a relatively small house with a side return and loft extension selling for 1.2m and above: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=45594374&sale=51852293&country=england http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=45753578&sale=51852341&country=england

Many of you have expressed your disapproval regarding the primary school plans for the Dulwich Hospital site. In addition to signing the petition linked to in the OP's post at the beginning of the thread, I would urge all of you who feel strongly about this to take the time to write to David Law who ultimately can influence what happens. Tessa is collecting emails and letters sent by this Friday as part of the case she is mounting against this proposal. More information is provided at this link from the Family Room! Tomorrow is the deadline. http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1405452

Maybe-- though I'm not sure why that matters. ED like most places in zone 2 are relatively very expensive relative to London more broadly. These aren't averagely priced areas in part due to their location.

The main issue that needs to be addressed locally is the secondary school shortage and nothing should impinge upon the secondary school's facilities even one iota. This appears to be the universal sentiment of your constituents James. Site sharing is not something the community believes is of benefit or desirable as they want to maximize the facilities and flexibility the new secondary school will have. Moreover, the ED Harris primary school campaign was not for two primary schools any more than the campaign for the secondary school (given its high numbers of signatories) is for multiple secondary schools. A high level of support for a single application is not a legal or a moral mandate to create multiple schools in an area despite your assertions to the contrary. More importantly, the analysis shows that the Dulwich area will already have a two form surplus in 2016. Developing another primary school in Dulwich is totally unnecessary and in all likelihood would be very harmful to the financial viability of our existing very popular local primary schools. The creation of the second Harris primary in Dulwich is also in violation of the rules and regulations that govern the creation of free schools. Legally schools should not be created if they will generate a surplus unless there are failing schools in the area and even then explicit parental support above and beyond what is required for a normal application would be required. We have no failing schools and there is no parental support, both of which are legal requirements. Lastly, the second Harris school was explicitly approved to address a potential shortfall in Nunhead. It is not viable for primary age pupils in Nunhead to commute to the Dulwich hospital site. Even so, the spare capacity that will exist by 2016 both in Dulwich and in Bellenden can more than accommodate the potential shortfall of places in Nunhead without developing a new school in Dulwich if a suitable site in Nunhead cannot be found and pupils are indeed forced to commute. The expansion of Ivydale has significantly reduced the risk that any such shortfall will materialize anyhow (it would have to be the upper most bounds of the projected pupil figures). How the school for Nunhead was ever approved is questionable in and of itself as no campaign was conducted and I hope the enquiries that Tessa Jowell is making in respect of this sheds some light on the very unorthodox manner that primary application was made. The legal framework for free schools makes sense but if our government institutions and academy sponsors do not adhere to those rules, the result is waste and chaos that can only be countered through campaigning and petitions which is a disgrace.

Yes, perhaps cheaper postcodes cover larger areas. Either way, I have friends who live in East London and to most people East Dulwich prices aren't average. The area is seen as expensive and you have to be considerably better off than average to buy here these days.

The average price of a terraced property in London is of ?569,906 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-my-area/marketTrendsTotalPropertiesSoldAndAveragePrice.html?searchLocation=SE22 The average price of a terraced property in SE22 is 757,600 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-my-area/marketTrendsTotalPropertiesSoldAndAveragePrice.html?searchLocation=SE22 I can't find the original map but to me, that suggest a significant difference between average and SE22. However, I am happy to agree to disagree.