LondonMix

Selling land at below market value to a school is altruistic. If the school was paying market for the land, there would be no logical reason for Dulwich Estate to limit the amount of land it was willing to sell them. Its a non-profit trust that has a legal fudiciary responsibility to proctect the endowment in trust.

Exactly! This problem wouldn't exist if there were both enough schools and all the schools were good. That is what I would like local government to put their energy into as when that is achieved all this other BS would automatically disappear.

Did the Dulwich Estate have to sell any of the land to Judith Kerr? Couldn't they have used all of the land for more profitable residential development? Again, it looks like the Dulwich Estate actually sacrificed some of its holdings to help with the creation of this new school. That they wanted to balance the financial needs of the foundation vs. the public good it could do by selling some of the land for educational purposes (presumably for less than a residential developer would have paid) in my view isn't evidence of wrong-doing but rather good management balancing different objectives- helping state education as a public good while growing the value of the endowment to fund more bursaries at its educational establishments.

Yes, punish sounds a bit entitled, though the intention seems to be to punish people trying to game the system Otta. I can understand the frustration with that but the proposal as stands would catch people out who never moved house. Also, I am not sure living close to a school really entitles you to go there. In London, its basically a way for rich people (like me) to ensure their kids get into a good school. I have a lot of sympathy for people who can?t afford to live near a good school but desperately want their kids to get a good education. Rather than trying to stop the few families that might be gaming the system by further complicating admissions policy and restricting movement of young families, my view is the council should be addressing the underlying problem: a shortage of good school places available to everyone.

Oh really-- I've never used Cook Shop but was always tempted to. What a shame.

Cook shop just started doing deliveries as well so I'd be suspicious but thar would be great

Food of course is essential but it is more than just that. Most cultures recognise there is real pleasure in eating (you get a kick of dopamine) but beyond that most cultures have set up social rituals around 'breaking bread'. Eating is social and pleasurable. You describe it like I'd describe flossing or cleaning my ears...

DulwichFox Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I tend to eat as a necessity to stay alive. > That is probably the saddest thing I've ever read.

This is really ridiculous. What if your first child go into the school on a bulge year and you always lived more than 800m from the school? What if it you were allocated a place there a year when it was under-subscribed but by the time your second child applies its much more popular? Punishing parents like this even if they have moved is ridiculous. Life circumstances dictate change and I dare say dropping of two primary school age children at different schools is a larger inconvenience than a child living close to a school having to go slightly further away.

Interesting!

Yeah edcam, I'm trying not to be skeptical and wish the new venture well... MickMac-- the pace of change feels like its really accelerated in the last 12 months. I've lived here for pushing 10 years and I'm not sure I've noticed so many shops that look like building sites at once. I just remembered that Haus of Wood is becoming a coffee shop right and a new Italian coffee place just opened near ED station

I am losing track of all the new places that are opening in the area there is so much change going on. From memory: ED 1. Speedo Pizza is becoming Burro e Salvia (I got email confirmation from them. They are already in Shoreditch) 2. Adventure Bar is becoming Tsunami (Japanese place in Charlotte Street and opening the end of this month) 3. Franco Manca is taking over the Draft House (opening by the end of the year) 4. Picture House is taking over the Church Hall (opening in December) 5. M&S taking over Iceland-- does anyone know if / when this is actually happening 6. The Dog in Dulwich Village is going to have a boutique hotel 7. Hope and Greenwood will become a 'fancy dog shop' 8. Haus of Wood is rumoured to be turning into a Black Lab Coffee (not sure if this is true) 9. New Cafe and Gymboree where the Electic Cafe used to be on Peckham Rye overlooking the Common 10 La Scala on Grove Vale (new Italian cafe) has just opened 11 Morrisons is rumoured to have taken a small shop on the residential development near ED station What's happening with the Irish Shop and ED Deli? What's new in Peckham? Anything else opening in the Village? Edited to expand list

So the school was originally developed with its current playing areas and has functioned that way for more than 100 years?

cle Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Otta Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > "OKR has nothing in terms of a destination, > just > > retail parks and rubbish." > > > > > > Is a retail park not a destination that people > > might like to get to? > > If you fancy buying a washing machine from Curry's > or some tiles from B&Q, and then taking them on > the Bakerloo line, perhaps... Hahaha! Hadn't thought of that myself... Anyhow, the article in the BBC says the plan is to have this done by 2030! I'll be an old lady by then but I suppose this is the pace of progress.

Before slandering the estate, why not actually figure out what they do. I know 100% of the money they provide to Alleyns goes to bursaries and that many of the bursaries are significant 50%-100%. Alleyn?s are trying to offer more 100% bursaries through donations. Not sure about the other schools (I have a friend whose kids go to Alleyn?s) but if the others use the Dulwich Estate income similarly, I think it?s a bit harsh to criticize them for trying to increase the income they receive to provide means tested bursaries. If the other schools don?t use the money to provide means tested / significant bursaries, then the Charity Commission to challenge them to do more. However, the Dulwich Estate has a fiduciary responsibility to act in the financial interest of the endowment and its stated aims and has done just that.

It looks like a Victorian school. When did the build over some of their playing areas?

This year, Dulwich Hamlet's first round last distance offer was 835m. After movement on the waiting list, the final distance offer was 1187. However, this year was a bulge year. I don't know for DVI's which is more complicated due to church places but I've asked Dulwich Hamlet before and when it doesn't bulge its about 700-800m as final distance offered. Its much easier to get into than East Dulwich Primaries as its a larger than average school and a lot of people nearby go private!

I didn't say all the schools but Alleyn publishes information on its website confirming it's all used for bursaries. Go have a look.

Alleyn's uses all of the money it receives from the Dulwich Estate to fund scholarships as was intended by the original endowment...

Yes-- damn autocorrect. I'll leave as is though... :)

I thought it was going to be Tortilla? I like the sound of Burro e Saliva but I was kind of looking forward to Mexican. We already have a few Italian places.

??? Unless you are several hundred years old, I imagine your solicitor explained the legal rights of the DE to you before you bought your house. The entire area is in trust to them.

Yes, I suppose the difference is that the private schools in the scenario I outlined would still be selective. They could be academically selective as well as offering sports and music places so the best athletes, scholars and artists regardless of family background could continue to benefit from the concentration of world class facilities. I suppose I am not opposed to the concept of an elite school as long as its not only for the economically elite and therefore doesn't actively work against social mobility.

I don?t know the answer to the question I posed but am glad its sparked debate. I can see both sides of it. The benefits and goals that educational charities were initially set up for are increasingly difficult to achieve in the modern world. Private education can be socially divisive and can reinforce elitism while simultaneously preventing social mobility, which is contrary to their benefactors? original wishes. Many countries have virtually banned private education so there certainly is precedent. The law can and does change so I am not really compelled by the legal argument at all. However, these institutions set a bar to which state education continually tries to strive towards and in that respect, the by their very existence advance the quality of education for everyone. Also the concentration of facilities have created terrific athletes etc for their country. I?m beginning to feel that for educational charities to be fit for purpose in the modern era and fulfill the aims of their founders, they have to become need blind via support from the state.

Regarding the Dulwich Estate, it appears 100 percent of the money Alleyns receives goes to bursaries. If so, the foundation is definitely fulfilling the terms of its mission as all endowment money is for means tested scholarships. http://www.alleyns.org.uk/page.aspx?id=860