bigbadwolf

ClareC Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Courts decide on punishment not revenge!! Its > ridiculous to claim punishment is revenge when > there is no personal involvement! As I said, impartial revenge.

Nothing in my opinion Sherwick it's just that it should be carried out by the authorities and in the case of the two offenders being dicused they should be locked up for the rest of their lives being that when they leave it will be in a box. They should be locked up for 23 hours a day with no human contact for those 23 hours unless strictly nessecery. No T.V or any other form of entertainment. Soundproof cell. basic yet reasonable sanitary utilities. Strictky monitored to stop themselves doing themselves any harm (I want them to live out their incarceration for as long as possible) A very tiny window that gives them a very small glimpse of the world that is passing them by. In effect, a living tomb. I'm seriously struggling to get to grips with peoples lack of imagination regarding the conditions I've described above. If someone killed a member of my family and I knew they were enduring the conditions I've described and was safe in the knowledge that they were never goin to be released I'd be content that justice had been done.

It happened because the cash point swallowed the card they were trying to withdraw money with. They thought the two students were stringing them along so they thought (stoned or not) that they deserved to be stabbed 200 times whereby some of the wounds were inflicted with suck force the blade penetrated the skull. Yes, I agree that drugs seem to be a major factor in this crime and the other violent incidents that preceded it. They were however in a sound enough state of mind to realise that they'd broken the law in that they torched the house the crime took place in. They knew they'd committed an incredibly heinous crime and saw the need to cover their tracks to avoid punishment. Please don't see this as an attempt at patronising you, it's not. The two young men had family who when confronted what had happened to their sons will have been overcome with a mixture of emotion, one being retribution. I can only guess that 'understanding' as you put it would've been very far from their thoughts, it would've been from mine in that situation. I don't think there is a human being on this earth that upon suffering this kind of tradgedy wouldn't have felt the same towards those that had inflicted the damage. I don't mean to be rude but I didn't really understand the last two sentences of your first paragraph EDOldie.

We wouldn't want you any other way Woof.

So far the most sound advice is from Woof regarding your original question Hanay.

They may have no soul in the sense that they couldn't care less about what they've done to another person Daizie but they're still human beings and for a human to loose his liberty/freedom under such conditions that I would like to see put in place for the type of people who inspired this thread would be utterly unbearable.

Keef Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > BBW, you say that any punishment is by definition > revenge. I disagree, I think revenge involves a > certain emotional content. Keef It's impartial revenge on behalf of the people. When I crime has been committed no matter how trivial the powers that be such as the Police and the courts have to take into account the example they're setting to the general public. For instance, a man walks into a bank with a gun and threatens to shoot the customers if the cashiers don't hand over the cash. Fortunately the Police arrive in time and arrest the offender. Apart from attempted robbery people have been put in very genuine fear of loosing their lives and loved ones. As a result of having a gun waved in their face they now have to face the psychological effects of the crime. They will also feel angry at this intrusion into their lives that will hinder them in the future. The Police and courts sympathize with them and also want to send out a message anyone thinking of going down the same path as the accused. The punishment is essentially revenge being dished out to those who intentionally disrupt society and it's rule. O.K, I like to think that the judge isn't sitting there thinking "I want to see you swing from the nearest tree" and that s/he takes everything into account before passing sentence but it is still essentially revenge against the offender if they're convicted.

I agree Lou. My argument is only aimed at criminals who are a serious risk to the public and show a repeat pattern of re-offending. I agree that rehabilitation works and should be rigorously pursued in cases where they've only started petty offending.

Avoid Barclays like the plague!!!

Sorry Jeremy are you addressing my argument?

You may see it as a waste of tax payers money but the methods I've laid out will be a much nastier and brutal way of punishing violent and murderous criminals such as the two who stabbed those two students. The methods I've laid out that are used by the U.S authorities for the most dangerous of offenders are put in place to crush their soul. A psychological torture that will only end once they die. I don't know about you but I'd rather loose my life than my mind.

Yeah come on Asset catch up.

Kid Cudi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54hVJmL1Cwc&feature=topvideos

Hanay, have you ever been to Catford?

At the end of the day Keef as much as I'm advocating it over the death penalty prison on the terms I wish isn't humane either, it's essentially barbaric. Prison, execution and all other punishments handed by the courts no matter how severe or soft are a very blatant form of revenge. What is revenge. Revenge is a harmful reaction against a person or group as a response to a real or perceived wrong doing. Harmful not only in the sense that those on the receiving end will suffer physical distress but in that they'll be separated from so much such as family, friends but most importantly their normal environment. It's simply impartial revenge carried out by the state on behalf of the victim. I do however support that those who commit crime because they're suffering a severe mental disorder should be treated for their illness rather than chucked in with a load of cut throats.

Sorry, Stevenage.

Yeah Kels got a point. Move to Slough.

louisiana Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Give them a chance guys. Everyone has to begin > somewhere. > > I'm a huge fan of Nunhead cemetery... Yeah, their forum does seem to be a bit of an EDF bone yard.

I agree Jezza. Not for humane reasons but because it's the easy way out of real punishment where you'll die at the end of anyway.

I don't know where you heard that Sonnex was from Peckham. He's from New cross in Lewisham. Farmer was of no fixed address.

Any more takers?

Bloody hell, I thought the Forest hill forum was boring!

Daizie. In today's culture of letting some of the most despicable pre-meditating criminals out for good behaviour I can see where you're coming from with regards to the rope. Earlier on I mentioned the American style of Supermax prisons. I want you to think very very carefully before you reply. If a close friend of yours or a relative was murdered what would you prefer. The assailant to be handed the death penalty or that they will have to spend the rest of their life for 23 hours a day in a soundproofed room with only a tiny slit for a window and no television with controlled neon lighting. On family visits they would be shackled and only be able to shuffle about. After several years if months of solitary confinement they will start to hallucinate followed by talking to voices in their head. Eventually they will literally begin to rot from the inside and be safe in the knowledge that they will never see the outside of that prison again. This is the harsh reality of a Supermax facility. I don't know about you guys but I find the concept terrifying and if the court had this option available to them a lot (I know not all) criminals would seriously think twice.

Yes.

Mikecg's there as well.