Sephiroth

Not only does Cat ignore the whole point about no credible economists supporting brexit, he then professes to be ignorant of DD's "''There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside'' Where is this quote from?" How can anyone get through last 5 years and not be aware of this and other promises (like Dan Hannan's "no-one is saying we will be outside Single Market or Customs Union") Cat's vacuous, Cummings-lite "we intelligentsia can see a bright future beyond the ken of mere mortals" schtick wouldn't muster 5% of a Brexit vote - it needed 10s of millions of people believing guff form Davis and Hannan and (still!) Johnson et al The whole thing was and remains a fatal house built on sand Never mind Cat's (slight, qualified, but nonetheless real) steps backward on the "taking the knee debate" - should he and I both make it another couple of decades in this life, he will never ever ever ever have been more wrong about any single thing ever and as before when "agree to disagree" nonsense has been proposed, I reject it. Because there is no disagreeing with the reality. This is too important to too many lives and livelihoods It was a lie, remains a lie and will be a lie for evermore - and if he (and others) can't see the poison and lies that sustain the whole thing (whilst openly ignorant of the lies that led us here), there can be no "agree to disagree".

False equivalence. There is no body of reapected economists supporting leave Ditto vaccines Ditto climate change Ditto tobacco

It?s just a shame that all the losers will be the people who were conned into voting for Brexit isn?t it? (And yes they were conned - fishermen, Northern Ireland unionists, etc) https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29415G If you voted Brexit and don?t feel conned, your time will come The rest is all high-minded theory - like communism. Would be great only none is doing it right One can?t argue with a true believer

Well the outage is from (as far as I can see) brexiteers So your supposition that it?s something everyone can agree on is flawed. I would suggest As for your positive outcomes - good luck with that (Again you admit we don?t have a good government. But that is fundamentally intertwined with Brexit. You can?t have a good government AND Brexit )

Another express link. I know I know But It is madness isn?t it? Cat? Tell me it?s madness. How many Brexit voters actually think this way? Anecdotally, I would say most of the people I know would agree with this article https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1463453/EU-news-farming-red-tape-empty-shelves-Britain-Brexit-news-latest-news-latest-vn/amp

"Wind Street is always edgy LOL" but isn't this the same logic as notimpressed?

unless I'm reading it wrong it's a charity giving money to 2 very high profile people, for them to Gove to a charity of their choice Which helps them get headlines about their goals So harry/meghan aren't getting ?500 from a charity to stick under the cushions

maybe I did sound like "more important things going on" - but that wasn't my intention at all. I guess I was reading it as if you were making it sound like a Big Issue when really you were just being more light hearted fair enough - my bad

authoritarian/prohibitive? where you getting that from? Post away! - I just thought it odd that an old thread was resurrected for such a slight reason and nothing about it struck me as "through the looking glass" that's all

never mind the news being a few days old Cat, this thread has been dead for months. Is this news really that bothersome its' worth resurrecting with phrases like "through the looking glass" Given the state of virus, brexit, NI, transport shortages etc etc - why is this even registering?

I've had zero errors getting to the page

did someone just post something? After my post there looks like another post but instead of words it's just egqopwerjeq rhoqerhujqeh0q3u0-q34i q34 y[q3 434q0973490ge rerg aerph[earihpeuarhp

tr: loutish behaviour good article here: https://theathletic.com/2704711/2021/07/15/this-is-what-you-endure-watching-england-as-a-woman-misogyny-sexism-and-the-constant-fear-of-being-touched-without-consent/ I see Paul Hayward (sports columnist at Telegraph) also posted something about noticing a change in the demographic of football louts to a younger more chippy age group

And yes I know the argument from the slow at thinking is ?eu isn?t the world. We can trade with ANYONE? Which then begs the question why is it a big deal if NI and GB are seeing slowdown in trade volumes. Can?t everyone just go trade elsewhere Oh but that?s a bad idea according to Frost. Increasing trade between NI and Republic is just not on

Someone should have warned him what happens when you pull of out of a trading deal with all your nearest partners, including a country you share a border with I reckon information like that would have been really useful and may have? oh who am I kidding. So now that we know friction causes traders to look elsewhere to trade (who knew??) will this lead to any enlightenment about Brexit itself and what it means for Britain?s future (ie in wider context, Britain is NI, and Europe is mainland Britain, avoiding the hassle of a relatively small market)

I see Frosty is today complaining about trade increasing between NI and the republic. Saying this is not the idea at all I mean. If he creates, signs and sells a treaty which puts a border between NI and mainland Britain, what does he think is going to happen? And if he (or anyone else complaining about this outcome) didnt realise it then yes you very much did not know what you were voting for/signing up to, and your opinions on this matter are valued accordingly

I used to get the 197 from Dulwich Library (so a fair bit closer than say, ED station) to East Croydon station - off-peak And if peak is longer than that (and one would imagine it is significantly busier) I would say avoid. It's a long dull schlep which I was happy enough with on an idle Saturday morning but if I had to do daily? Hard no No harm trying all options and seeing which works best for you tho

Now, Aussie Rules crossed with Gaelic football - THAT was a boisterous sport

This thread has been interesting to watch develop - leaving aside the topic itself, many of The Usual Suspects (myself included) have been involved, often saying things one would expect to hear, sometimes forcefully so And yet this time things haven't spilled over into slanging matches* (again I hold my hand up - in my defence, I'm usually right ;-) ) and people have had space to consider and reconsider It's better than usual is what I'm saying * I'm generalising a bit . Cat, for example has directly been called a troll - but in fairness to that poster (j.a., one of my current forum faves) , it reads to me like they have more direct involvement in this subject than many of us and I can see why they would be so upset

great post Duncan Interesting to see several prominent conservative MPs and commentators (Johnny Mercer, Steve Baker, Danny Finkelstein in the Times) all being very clear the government is wrong on this issue

to be clear Cat I'm not calling you a racist or even "suggesting" it in an underhand way but taking the side of the booers (as Patel and Johnson - leaders of this country ffs - have done) against English players is very much dog whistling to the racists. You must be able to see this much? If you (not you, but one) if one is a racist, and you boo players taking the knee and you hear govt leaders support you, not the players - you are going to feel emboldened right? You (actually you this time) do go to great pains to construct an elebaborate rationale for objecting to the knee, but why? you don't need to. They might even be very good reasons - but no-one is listening - you have people using a gesture against racism, and you have a plenty of racists booing them (and worse). That's what people are seeing

We know that taking the knee is an anti racist gesture We know there are more than a couple of racists in the crowd We know that those racists boo the gesture So, if it was me who had a problem with some perceived Marxist/BLM organisation agenda, but was also against racism, I think I would choose which side I condemned a bit more carefully than some people do

he is absolutely spot on - and the fact that an English football player has to call the British government out on this is extraordinary. It should be a wake up call - but I suspect it will be the line where many people say "ah come on now - we all deplore racism, but you've gone too far here"

Whilst of course it's good to see the public backlash against racist behaviour, that's still a low bar - that is people simply doing what they should be doing politicians publicly condemning? That is often hypocritical given their previous public pronouncements in the case of Johnson and Patel, and should be condemned as precisely that But the bigger problem remains - the cycle continues. Players (in this instance - bit of course regular folk as well( have to live with abuse, consequences for the abusers are effectively nil (notwithstanding outliers like the estate agent employee) and around and around we go - "it's just a minority. it's just bots from east Europe online" etc etc It's going to take more than that to change things.

Anyone had any fresh thoughts over last couple of days? Senior govt ministers and the sun seem to be (publicly at least) backtracking