Sephiroth

I wouldn't disagree with most of that Cat But it does feel a bit like we are back in late 19th century Wild West where snake oil salesmen went from town to town and I wonder why that is for most of 20th century it seems like we avoided obvious charlatans and relied on boring competence (I'm oversimplifying - but as a generalisation) . Why are we back here?

Gentle reminder. The tories have been in power for 11 years Blaming labour for leaving some straw man white working class behind only goes so far If people are disaffected and left behind, why blame a government from over a decade ago? And what is it that this government is promising and going to deliver? Because I take an interest in these things and I have no idea.

If you don't wear a good Jersey, you will be Friesian

And as has been noted - no problems between France and Guernsey

Yes because your upsides are not going to happen. And people are telling you they won?t and why Just like they said fishermen would be screwed, Irish border would be a problem etc. But you persist (because you have ?reasons?) It?s a con. And it?s a folly. And the people who are the engine behind it (yes the racists. Yes the people who call uk law and establishment saboteurs. Yes the actually nutty posters on here. Those people ) don?t seem like your kind of people. But you think somehow when the dust settles you will have those people in check?

I think the question remains - yes you acknowledge the downsides theoretically but you don?t really have any skin in those games. And you still want to push on for your hypothetical (and unrealistic) wins Given the likes of arch leavers like Roland Smith (who is someone I consider you akin to - middle aged, white, relatively privaliged, savvy, eu sceptic and agitator for leave for many years) has so clearly changed his mind - the question is why do you think you retain some vision of the Truth about all of this and persist with your Vision of Leave. Which won?t happen. And you will blame clowns like Johnson. A clown you needed to even get Brexit Because the whole thing is a scam. It?s one you have your reasons for going along with. But they aren?t good reasons and the cost is too high

You have acknowledged job losses and downsides yes cat. But as I?ve said repeatedly if Brexit was sold as your version it wouldn?t have passed. In the wider world, your version of Brexit simply is not what was sold

Farkin ell Mockney will be back in a mo

Whoooosh

It?s amazing how labour (for example) can never get near power with anything that whiffs of anything too left wing. The excuse ?don?t worry. Always winners and losers. Give it 10 years. You?ll see? doesn?t wash there. And it doesn?t wash with Brexit either

How convenient

Cat hasn?t twigged that Brexit has screwed and divided the country and the country will remain that way until it?s addressed No one is complaining about Brexit more than people who voted for Brexit but he doesn?t complain about them (he can?t even mention them normally because that would mean facing up to the reality) This forum, me, and all of us could disappear tomorrow. But cat will still have to listen to people complaining and face the consequences of his gamble for pretty much rest of his life

?If Brussels and Dublin ? F@@k me. Where were you people when people like me were saying Brexit would lead to this. England has forced this situation. Not Dublin. Not Brussels

Jesus wept

But as we know, People like Cat aren?t fishermen They aren?t Irish. They can dismiss these things as ?not something the public care about? And yet, when people like us warned of these consequences we weren?t told ?no one cares about these matters? We were told ?fishermen will be the big winners and Northern Ireland won?t face any problems ? But if we go back to 2016 and told people both fishermen and Northern Ireland would be screwed, do we think Brexit would have won? No. No it wouldn?t (And these are but the first manifestations of the losing that is heading to the rest of Britain in the coming years)

And here is Brexit and this Govt in a nutshell Remember when fishing was going to be the one clear obvious win? ?Gov?t response to fishermen left unemployed by failure to agree a Norway deal, is quite something: ?We have always been clear that we will only strike agreements if they are balanced.? I guess we all IMAGINED their promises to the fishing industry. ~AA https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/black-day-hull-fishermen-without-5359979

The reason there is a direct link between the clowns in government and Brexit is that if you had anything else, Brexit wouldn?t exist Brexit required years and years of saying ?sunlit uplands, no downside? to get it narrowly over the line (so it could then be interpreted by any group of clowns in power) If Brexit was presented as Cat tries to it would have been strangled at birth. The whole thing is a fraud. But that?s ok because Johnson is a fraud. And too many people are absolutely fine with that

Posting articles from spiked and dumb economists is about the only thrill available to leavers. It?s so pathetic. Like those people Ringing in to talk shows to scream ?I voted leave to annoy people like you? Unforgivable

It?s not about ?being better people?. It?s just that the choice of remaining meant not messing with peoples lives and economies on made up promises.

That is all just fantasy - and I really resent having to pay for and gamble further peoples' security and safety for this fantasy People who voted remain are not in any way equivalent to those who voted leave - because one was a known outcome. The other was a bunch of competing fantasies Listen to the fishermen for example bitterly complain about how they have been shafted - never mind that that was always going to happen. Or DUP. Cat just hasn't figured out he has been or will be shafted yet

of course it isn't But if I supported Anything and found that same thing was also aggressively supported by a bunch of clowns like this? I'd reconsider

"But I was trying to address the various handwringing that goes on here about 'why' people would support this govt." Yes there is handwringing. Yes it's largely pointless. But at the very least it allows me to see I'm not alone in my horror But I don't think history will be as kind as to describe this govt as "lightweight" - I think history will be very much harsher and necessarily so. It is no coincidence that the "total joke" of a government consists entirely of Brexit believers after the election purge - there is a strong link between those two things

1.1 million vaccinations in Germany yesterday

My point is this. People who say ?you lot are attacking Johnson but people just don?t care? might well be (currently) correct That in no way diminishes the problem at hand

Edit because I was more snarky than even I want to be