Sephiroth

* whispers * it's all an attempted diversion to get the "libs" all outraged given that the "brexit thing" is going pretty badly and "they" can't genuinely stick to those threads so confections like this are all they have I know, I'm embarrassed for them too

I'm sure Hamletter will be along shortly to defend This Absolutely Not Trolling post from his Compadre/Acolyte/AlterEgo The absolute childishness of some grown men remains a constant surprise even tho I know it shouldn't

Back to malumbu tho - judging by general chatter amongst footie fans I know, I think it's a losing battle to try and find a home for the programmes. I would advise chucking

"You have been judged" And the Sssentenccce is.... DEATH

It's a bit of a sliding scale I think If the dominating priority is to declutter then biting the bullet and recycling is the fastest, easiest and IMO best option But if the scale leans towards redistribution, finding like minded people for the objects in question then I think that is good and noble but can lead to stasis and things just not happening

? I'm discussing an issue? Very much to the contrary - you are ignoring the issue and instead picking fights with the eu and remainders when all that has happened is that you got what you voted for The issues are the Irish border, trade volumes massively down, businesss drilling like flies. All predicted and now they are happening you aren?t talking about them The solution is simple - align yourself with and possibly join Single market and customs union.

Well the current situation is unsustainable. So what does ?making the best of it? actually mean beyond a comforting phrase?

Cheers Alex - I genuinely did not know that

you can read one FT article free a day if you google the headline and click on results link FT "How AstraZeneca?s vaccine was hit by flawed trials, defects and politics ? but might still save the world"

like I keep saying - Cat knows. He KNOWS he's fucked it. I'll bet he has friends and family who tell him exactly that as well. But easier to come on here and fight with people like me Years we've been saying Northern Ireland is a problem. Years we have been saying trade, farming and fishing will be screwed. Not a care in the world from Cat- oh but now it's actually real and actually happening??? "It's the nasty EU punishing us! We need a better deal!!!!" 4 years of brexit, 2 subsequent elections, 2 subsequent Tory leaders, several extensions - all to prepare and hammer out a better deal - amounted to zilch No self-awareness. No responsibility. Still thinks it'll be worth it Where is this better deal going to come from? What will it look like? What form will it take? What will UK give up to get better terms and access? Who holds all the cards? Not the UK

You asked the questions - I was replying But yes I will continue to point out the folly of brexit and all of it's shitty outcomes "The general consensus is that the deal is 'thin'," Who is this consensus amongst? Does it include the 27 countries of the EU? Does it include the UK Prime Minister who says we will prosper mightily? Does it include anyone who genuinely matters? The deal is indeed thin and not fit for purpose from a UK perspective - but that's what remainers have been saying for years. It's this Leave govt who sold it to electorate as a great deal Ongoing negotiations? They ended when the deal was signed. You can't sell and amazing deal and then say it's thin and want to negotiate afterwards. Besides - what leverage have you got now compared to being a member? "Im not saying anything wildly controversial when I say that there are clearly elements within the EU who want to 'punish' Britain" - again - how big is the group where this opinion is not wildly controversial? Who are it's members? Are they credible? Or are they just sore and bitter because they realise the damage they have done to their own country? the EU is doing nothing, nothing unique to the UK compared to comparable nearby countries. NZ (as you well know) is the other side of the world. How is that comparable to say, Switzerland or Norway? Were these non-NZ-comparable checks somehow a surprise to the UK after signing the deal? Anyone who tried to examine the deal pre end of extension was told they were trying to stop Brexit. No point complaining now

Interesting background around the AZ vaccine in today?s FT https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/d0fd6c4c-939a-43c7-a9b9-47c8d3cab253

"im interested in what level of action you would consider crosses the line from 'expected/reasonable protection of EU interests' to 'spiteful/resentful/petty 'payback'?" "The government should just give up striving for the UK's interests right? give up pushing for a better deal when it thinks it can? just rollover and accepts whatever the EU want at any time on anything yes?" What I don't get about comments like this is the lack of understanding. From someone who professes to have done som much thinking and research into their decision to leave and from someone who still supports it so so much What does crossing the line mean? we were a member of the EU for decades so we know what it's interests are. We know what it gives to other countries and we know what it expects in return. This government has rejected any and all concessions so gets none back (pretty much) - this govt has said in fact, that that is what it wants. So what line is the EU crossing and why do you think it's them crossing it? UK interests and a better deal? The UK has only in recent months signed this deal - in fact told everyone it was a great deal that will see UK prosper mightily? why is it seeking a better deal already? What's wrong with this one and why did they sign it?

it's not like for like England wants to leave a bigger whole to be "sovrin'n'indipendunt" all by itself Scotland wants away from a small Union (which is seemingly run by idiots (is there a border in Irish Sea or isn't there? govt can't even agree or acknowledge what it means) not to be all on it's own but to be part of a bigger union Makes total sense. It doesn't come with zero downsides tho So - wether you think Brexit or Scottish independence is Good or Bad or in-between, they aren't the same thing at all

"UK pressing its concerns over Irish situation = cakeism EU pressing its concerns over Irish situation = Eu just protecting its own interests and the UK getting what it deserves " This is not what is happening. The last 4 years were both sides coming to an agreement about what brexit would mean for the border. The current problems were repeatedly outlined and UK repeatedly dismissed or ignored. Johnson got elected on the back of his promises to get this done - people pointed out the problems with the border - he constantly refused to acknowledge them ("tell them to contact me and I'll put the paperwork in the bin") This was a problem entirely foretold and to. turn around and say now - well it's both sides innit - is disingenuous at best Uk asking for extension of exemption until 2023 just coincidentally happens to help Johnson and his next election, again avoiding worst extremes of his own decisions. Why hasn't he done anything in last few years to address the problems that are happening now?

Friday showed that Ireland called the commission and explained what?s what. And the commission listened and backed down It?s the U.K. govt that has repeatedly said it?s comfortable with triggering article 16 or even ?starving? Ireland to get a good deal The eu has not used Ireland in any of this over 5 years - If it had yiu would be hearing a lot more about it from. Irish people. Why am I even arguing with you. It?s nuts

You people are crazy I wrote this a few years back and it?s holds up pretty well still Don?t go blaming eu - you did this. After all ?you knew what you were voting for? /forum/read.php?20,1833347,2000118#msg-2000118

English exceptionalism strikes again "this is the problem. this is what it will lead to" ignore/deny repeat over and over The problem happens Accept responsibility? Nope - just assume the other side will bend to accommodate you How about Westminster accepts it has fucked this one up and acts appropriately - instead of just saying "eu will bend"

The rules were partially written up and enforced by U.K. for years and years. The eu has pointed out this problem for the last few years This is all U.K. choice. They will need to join up to some of the rules and give up this puritanical version of sovereignty they have been maniacally chasing

I don't know what that means keano The UK went into this knowing full well what brexit meant to the border but have spent the whole time denying it to the public. This is not on EU - this was foretold and dismissed as project fear

I am not liking the noises coming from the DUP. very very bad Not surprising in any way. But extremely troubling

I don't know if we SHOULD be worried But I think it's fair to actually be worried, for all the reasons you state Question is, no matter how worried we get, can anything be done to correct?

TrinnyDad is back I see

"I bet none of them would opt to defer getting their jabs so that the EU could decide who should get it instead." well that isn't true - I for one would prefer a uniform rollout and despite being 50+ would happily forgo by jab for a wider benefit and I don't watch it, but I believe this week's question time answered the same question in much the same way?

There is a lot to unpick over the last few days with a lot of people rushing to judgements that I don't feel comfortable with at all What is undeniably true is that the EC has had a nightmare and cocked up royally - not just in one heated day's exchange, but over several days of escalating tensions. They didn't just not think to consult Ireland and UK but left people like Barnier blindsided as well - he was reportedly furious and rightly so, as should all the parties involved. Plus the UK govt deserves credit for at no point pouring oil on troubled waters, despite been given multiple opportunities to do so. I would love to know who was the wise head providing that counsel Of course all of this wouldn't be an issue were it not for the problems presented by Brexit and specifically NI itself. Or if AZ had managed it's client rather better. Has the UK vaccine strategy been far superior to the EC's? Unquestionably so far. But I do think the EC is right to be aggrieved at the way they have invested in and been treated by AZ (others will argue the reverse is equally valid) But despite Cat's comments, it seemed pretty clear all day yesterday that Remainers everywhere were appalled and as likely to complain about the commissions actions - maybe not on here (as DR mentions, I haven't posted for a while because... reasons) Ultimately it's been a clusterfuck which the EU and the commission needs to own - but having made such a blunder it's equally heartening to see that once calls form member states started to make their position known, the retraction and reversal was pretty swift. It left damage behind - but it didn't double down when it (eventually) became clear what the problem ahead was Equally clear after this episode is that this won't be a one off. Brexit means UK and EU are rivals - that's the point - and whilst vaccines and pandemic mean emotions run higher than usual and the stakes are global - there will be a point in the near future when those are less of an issue and something trade related will flare up. And whilst I blame the EC for this episode , and praise the UK in it's response this time - I caught a glimpse of something from the usual suspects (UK press, online opinion makers and others) that has left me more uncomfortable about brexit than even I was before