Sephiroth

It?s amazing how labour (for example) can never get near power with anything that whiffs of anything too left wing. The excuse ?don?t worry. Always winners and losers. Give it 10 years. You?ll see? doesn?t wash there. And it doesn?t wash with Brexit either

How convenient

Cat hasn?t twigged that Brexit has screwed and divided the country and the country will remain that way until it?s addressed No one is complaining about Brexit more than people who voted for Brexit but he doesn?t complain about them (he can?t even mention them normally because that would mean facing up to the reality) This forum, me, and all of us could disappear tomorrow. But cat will still have to listen to people complaining and face the consequences of his gamble for pretty much rest of his life

?If Brussels and Dublin ? F@@k me. Where were you people when people like me were saying Brexit would lead to this. England has forced this situation. Not Dublin. Not Brussels

Jesus wept

But as we know, People like Cat aren?t fishermen They aren?t Irish. They can dismiss these things as ?not something the public care about? And yet, when people like us warned of these consequences we weren?t told ?no one cares about these matters? We were told ?fishermen will be the big winners and Northern Ireland won?t face any problems ? But if we go back to 2016 and told people both fishermen and Northern Ireland would be screwed, do we think Brexit would have won? No. No it wouldn?t (And these are but the first manifestations of the losing that is heading to the rest of Britain in the coming years)

And here is Brexit and this Govt in a nutshell Remember when fishing was going to be the one clear obvious win? ?Gov?t response to fishermen left unemployed by failure to agree a Norway deal, is quite something: ?We have always been clear that we will only strike agreements if they are balanced.? I guess we all IMAGINED their promises to the fishing industry. ~AA https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/black-day-hull-fishermen-without-5359979

The reason there is a direct link between the clowns in government and Brexit is that if you had anything else, Brexit wouldn?t exist Brexit required years and years of saying ?sunlit uplands, no downside? to get it narrowly over the line (so it could then be interpreted by any group of clowns in power) If Brexit was presented as Cat tries to it would have been strangled at birth. The whole thing is a fraud. But that?s ok because Johnson is a fraud. And too many people are absolutely fine with that

Posting articles from spiked and dumb economists is about the only thrill available to leavers. It?s so pathetic. Like those people Ringing in to talk shows to scream ?I voted leave to annoy people like you? Unforgivable

It?s not about ?being better people?. It?s just that the choice of remaining meant not messing with peoples lives and economies on made up promises.

That is all just fantasy - and I really resent having to pay for and gamble further peoples' security and safety for this fantasy People who voted remain are not in any way equivalent to those who voted leave - because one was a known outcome. The other was a bunch of competing fantasies Listen to the fishermen for example bitterly complain about how they have been shafted - never mind that that was always going to happen. Or DUP. Cat just hasn't figured out he has been or will be shafted yet

of course it isn't But if I supported Anything and found that same thing was also aggressively supported by a bunch of clowns like this? I'd reconsider

"But I was trying to address the various handwringing that goes on here about 'why' people would support this govt." Yes there is handwringing. Yes it's largely pointless. But at the very least it allows me to see I'm not alone in my horror But I don't think history will be as kind as to describe this govt as "lightweight" - I think history will be very much harsher and necessarily so. It is no coincidence that the "total joke" of a government consists entirely of Brexit believers after the election purge - there is a strong link between those two things

1.1 million vaccinations in Germany yesterday

My point is this. People who say ?you lot are attacking Johnson but people just don?t care? might well be (currently) correct That in no way diminishes the problem at hand

Edit because I was more snarky than even I want to be

Doff that cap much farther and you?ll bump into a lamppost Sorry - but your ?logic? falls apart if you apply it to anyone else. People never stop being interested in other leaders no matter how often they ?cut a fart? And wether people are interested in what?s going on or not is beside the point - the government and democratic structure of the country needs to be in check

Average man/woman may or may not care Yet it is AMAZING how much they care when it?s a labour leader up for election. Every little foible is very much Something Important and dutifully reported by the ?press? And the same tories saying people don?t care we?re very much of the opinion that people cared about Sturgeon a couple of weeks ago The whole thing stinks

?Delivering in spades saving lives ? That?s an overly kind view tbf

It's entirely possible that Scotland will vote to stay in Uk but that won't prevent the Years and Decades of issues arising from Brexit continuously causing division So until people start to reverse Brexit (in name or in practice - we all know it means aligning with SM and CU) the problems behind all of this will remain The link posted by JA is from someone who was once an ardent Leaver and whilst no fan of the EU now, has come to realise just how fundamentally broken the very principle of Leave and it's proponents were. I still find him a little glib on occasion but at least he has admitted the mistake

"I have to admit, although neutral on whether Scotland should ne independent or not, I'm enjoying seeing Brexit voters like Cat citing economic data as a reason why Scotland shouldn't leave the Union..." The other sign of this coin of course is that Remainers have to be able to say why disruption of Brexit is awful when it's UK leaving EU, but not so bad when Scotland leaves UK To my mind Scotland leaving the UK is not OK, objectively speaking. It will cause all manner of disruption and problems and had Brexit not happened the previous referendum had settled the matter But Brexit changed everything - and I do understand why a country which voted to remain in EU by significant margin, can see the problems ahead for the UK, and has a chance to remain in the EU would choose to take that path. And people like me warned this would be a consequence of a Brexit but were dismissed as project fear - but here we are

"A border will only be required if an independent Scotland later joined the EU" that's not really up for debate is it? Thought Scotland was fast-tracking to EU membership? Part of the whole point?

so, much as per pre-Brexit referendum then "don't worry we will work something out. Some arrangements" so - borders then? "No no - no-one wants borders. We will have arrangements" The people pushing for the split can't be in denial about what the split means. Just because she isn't saying "border" doesn't mean that they won't happen Essentially, she is making same mistake as Leavers - making promises about something that isn't in their control

aye - people should be free to vote for what they want, but not in the face of, or on the basis of absolutely obvious falsehoods like this

I agree that the job of being an MP is currently undervalued - socially and economically. I think they should be paid more and I think they should attract a wider group of people That said - I think the voters share as much blame as anyone for current state. Since the expenses scandal (ah, were we ever so young) the public appear to prefer abusing MPs than understand what it is they do, coupled with the fact that no matter what they do, as long as they are wearing the correct team colours (of any hue) they can be relatively assured of the vote in most constituencies. The voting system doesn't help in this regard