Sephiroth

The rules were partially written up and enforced by U.K. for years and years. The eu has pointed out this problem for the last few years This is all U.K. choice. They will need to join up to some of the rules and give up this puritanical version of sovereignty they have been maniacally chasing

I don't know what that means keano The UK went into this knowing full well what brexit meant to the border but have spent the whole time denying it to the public. This is not on EU - this was foretold and dismissed as project fear

I am not liking the noises coming from the DUP. very very bad Not surprising in any way. But extremely troubling

I don't know if we SHOULD be worried But I think it's fair to actually be worried, for all the reasons you state Question is, no matter how worried we get, can anything be done to correct?

TrinnyDad is back I see

"I bet none of them would opt to defer getting their jabs so that the EU could decide who should get it instead." well that isn't true - I for one would prefer a uniform rollout and despite being 50+ would happily forgo by jab for a wider benefit and I don't watch it, but I believe this week's question time answered the same question in much the same way?

There is a lot to unpick over the last few days with a lot of people rushing to judgements that I don't feel comfortable with at all What is undeniably true is that the EC has had a nightmare and cocked up royally - not just in one heated day's exchange, but over several days of escalating tensions. They didn't just not think to consult Ireland and UK but left people like Barnier blindsided as well - he was reportedly furious and rightly so, as should all the parties involved. Plus the UK govt deserves credit for at no point pouring oil on troubled waters, despite been given multiple opportunities to do so. I would love to know who was the wise head providing that counsel Of course all of this wouldn't be an issue were it not for the problems presented by Brexit and specifically NI itself. Or if AZ had managed it's client rather better. Has the UK vaccine strategy been far superior to the EC's? Unquestionably so far. But I do think the EC is right to be aggrieved at the way they have invested in and been treated by AZ (others will argue the reverse is equally valid) But despite Cat's comments, it seemed pretty clear all day yesterday that Remainers everywhere were appalled and as likely to complain about the commissions actions - maybe not on here (as DR mentions, I haven't posted for a while because... reasons) Ultimately it's been a clusterfuck which the EU and the commission needs to own - but having made such a blunder it's equally heartening to see that once calls form member states started to make their position known, the retraction and reversal was pretty swift. It left damage behind - but it didn't double down when it (eventually) became clear what the problem ahead was Equally clear after this episode is that this won't be a one off. Brexit means UK and EU are rivals - that's the point - and whilst vaccines and pandemic mean emotions run higher than usual and the stakes are global - there will be a point in the near future when those are less of an issue and something trade related will flare up. And whilst I blame the EC for this episode , and praise the UK in it's response this time - I caught a glimpse of something from the usual suspects (UK press, online opinion makers and others) that has left me more uncomfortable about brexit than even I was before

Omg JFC Wtf

not even mentioned in recent posts is the near-certainty of the UK no longer being a thing had to look back at the referendum thread from 2014 and found this from quidsy: "Because the despite the relentless propoganda on their nastyness etc the tories have principles and believe that the union is and has been a good thing - above political expediency...just possibly" and you look at the landscape now and just weep - how wrong is it possible to be

"in Europe (which is still locked-down as vaccinations lag)" I mean, this does give the impression that countries in Europe have more than the UK 1500-200k deaths a day, and that they are in lockdown and Uk isn't right? European countries are behind in raw 1st vaccination numbers that's true - but are they worse off/behind in overall health terms?

"but perhaps in 6 months when domestic demand is far exceeding consumption in Europe (which is still locked-down as vaccinations lag), we might be talking about different relative winners and receive losers." and it's ME that needs to seek help Right

For clarity - until you reckon with the genuine and dramatic problems caused by Brexit - you have no case to be called "reasonable" You try and equate the OP list of problems with "Well Nissan say this and We are ahead in jabs" as if they carry equal weight They do not When you start dealing with actuality then you can talk about you being "the voice of reason" Until then, maybe dial back the reference to other people's mental wellbeing, eh?

" At least racists like () have their twisted > reasons - but you.. actually.. believe.. in... > sunlit.. uplands " does not equal " 'the racists' are better than people trying to be reasonable'. " It means racists are honest with themselves Dressing yourself in the robes of "reasonableness" does not make you reasonable - it's entirely in your own head

Genuinely, as a prominent supporter of Brexit I would be interested in his actual take on what is happening at the border, at what his happening to business like seabag's These are big issues - and us worriers could do with some insight as to the bigger picture and what the upsides are which address these ACTUAL real-life issues (in the meantime I guess I will have to make do with comments about my mental health, Nissan's relative comfort with not having to commit to any new infrastructure thanks to a hefty bung, and a general hand-wavy approach to border chaos)

"Oh and we?re having to explore setting up an office in Europe to get around much of the toxic UK business atmosphere." to be fair that is now official uk govt advice. Take your tax revenue and jobs from the Uk and move them to the EU Perhaps that is sunlit uplands for UK but I can't see how

Seabag I'm reading this everywhere and feel for you. Clearly it's an unsustainable situation and UK will have to realign on some level with EU to avoid collapse. I wish either the govt or the opposition weren't so afraid of stating the bleeding obvious (you could always take Cat's advice and seek help? or maybe file it under "So delivery of your package has been delayed in Germany, pleae let me know when can we expect the Messerschmidtt to appear over the skies of London as was promised?")

It's not YOUR brexit arguments. You just happen to present yourself as some kind of "reasonable" face of an impossible project At least racists like ([redacted]) have their twisted reasons - but you.. actually.. believe.. in... sunlit.. uplands You think 10 years of pain is somehow worth it You have not posted a single thing about the problems at borders It's not me that needs help

I can't believe Cat has quoted stories about Nissan and securing jabs as his defence He just isn't a serious person. It's all just some kind of weird game I stopped replying for a week or so because when I read his comments about Jan 6 in Washington I thought "nah, I'm out" but here he is talking about a Japanese company, with an 80M bung, with cultural disinclination to rock the political boat, and with no commitment to actual future investment as a genuine counterpart to all of the serious issues going on with haulage at borders. As some kind of Brexit win. "we give 80M to a company and they say nice things about Brexit" It's... kind of sick

"I choose David Cameron's 2016 claims that Brexit could mean Europe is torn apart by another violent conflict." - go on then. Choose that. Post that link Because I wouldn't be so confident in claiming that it won't lead to problems - be it around NI border issues, or even "fishing" rights. For example https://www.thenational.scot/news/18939883.no-deal-brexit-uk-threatens-send-gunboats-protect-fishing-waters/ With brexiteers like Kawczynski urging their deployment I don't see sunlit uplands anywhere - but I do see lots of chaos

"I could also post a similar facile, cherry-picked set of links with positive commentary on the transition so far..." You really couldn't. Or you would you are massively massively underplaying the systemic destruction of the trade system with dramatic impact on jobs, livelihoods and infrastructure and all you have in reply is some facile "well actually" as per Reading the many reports of what is actually happening at borders and customs is way worse than "your package is delayed in Germany" "How have things changed for YOU" is just as bad as "well have YOU died from Covid" Very Bad Things are happening. And your belittling of them is just grim

All good links zerk But the killer is the food shortages in Northern Ireland, the annihilation of fishing and the massive problem that is haulage constipation/dissipation Government response? ?Teething problems? which is simply criminal Labour response? Hire 40k more border staff which is just jaw-droppingly dumb and kinder-garden in its understanding of what is required Country still is a joke and under a spell. Until it wakes up, this will get worse

It?s nuts that people are giving any credence to this nonsense conspiracy bullshit But people focusing on some bogus claim about photo doctoring and ignoring the actual lies v reality coming from his mouth are a big part of the problem IMO

It isn't hard to look at UK numbers and SOMEHOW imagine them being better tho, surely When you are this bad, in this much of a whole compared to other countries (per capita) you can't just wave it away as "fortune" can you? If a government can't handle something like this better (and many govts have done badly, just not quite this bad so far) then what is the point?? Other governments have done better than tis one and face massively hostile electorates. is that unfair? Maybe. But why does this one get a pass?

"Boris just doesn't answer though, can he continue that for 3 years." short answer is no. He will not last 3 more years. I don't think he will last until year end

"There will also be a couple of mess ups no doubt." there will definitely be major battles with the nutter press and wing of the Tory part that thinks this is all some hoax designed to take away our rights (all the same people who think Brexit is a good idea coincidentally enough) But hopefully the medical experts have the upper hand now after nearly a year of this