Sephiroth

I'm not aware of any political body/force that doesn't have some degree of dysfunctionality? Happy to be corrected on that one

Looks like the German govt have been caught red-handed and I've read a few stories condemning them this since it broke last week But it has nothing to do with Brexit as far as I can see? And I don't THINK many of is on this island can vote in German elections.

even I got what Cat meant with this one

Totally normal country UK ?rejected offer? of visa-free tours by musicians in EU, despite blaming Brussels for permit blow https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-free-work-musicians-eu-brexit-b1784600.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1610221935

Totally normal country https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/09/pm-launches-operation-bleach-strip-references-eu-tens-thousands/amp/

Surely you knew this would happen. You knew what you were voting for Etc

Ah right. It?s the eu fault When there wasn?t any barriers before there is now. Britain takes control of its borders but gets to tell other countries how to control theirs.

I'm not reversing - just because you say I am doesn't make it so. The discussion then was around outcome of no deal - that isn't where we are. You KNOW this where we are avoids the worst excesses but leaves many many problems in place - why do you feel the need to misrepresent me? And why do you get to ignore those problems?

ah good you found it so back when we were discussing the potential outcome of the governments own forecasts in a no deal scenario, where, AGAIN, the government, not me predicted those possible outcomes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55600466 Just to check that BBC link works What's the ridiculous bit keano?

"Pretty hard to ignore when you've been banging on about it for 4 years. " I have been banging on about it for 4 years - let's review what's happened Trump won - lots of people said he was a fascist and were shouted down. Britain fell over itself to give him a state visit for a hoped-for trade deal that never happened. Trump continued to fash. Loads of brexiteers and this government(s) continued to say what a swell guy he was. And look where that ended up Speaking of our governments - we've had 3 in the 4 years since then. 2 general elections. 3 leaders. soon to be 4. Doesnt seem like anyone wants the credit for this amazing feat of Brexit to me. Sounds like a shitshow in a f***factory to me Global pandemic - all governments struggled to cope. Guess who struggled more than most and learnt nothing since it struck. In fact which government tried to deny it and wanted to ignore it at the beginning. Tick Which amazing new future had to be postponed twice with extensions because the ramifications of not were too serious to contemplate. Yep, Brexit again. The gift that keeps giving But now it's here!! at last. Yay. And instead of pointing to any great outcome we have people going "there isn't war famine or death" as some kind of gotcha. Whilst simultaneously ignoring or poo-poohing all the major businesses and haulage and trade experts pointing out the problems since Jan 1 But its' much easier to lock horns with me on a bulletin board than deal with reality isn't it? Forgot to add - mirroring fascist Trump, the UK govt proroguing parliament, treating to break international law AFTER signing an agreement and now preventing scrutiny of the deal https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/jacob-rees-mogg-terminates-brexit-committee-6891278 These are all the actions of a totally sane government in no way trying to cover up the problems to come

"War, terrorism, famine, pestilence. Got it. " Your words, not mine. Although terrorism because of renewed conflict in NI would be foolish to rule out Making everything a bit more shit (trade, cost, haulage, relations with EU) but not leading to anything catastrophic is not The Big Win you think it is. It just means everyone has had to deal with more shit And it isn't something that people voted for, no matter what you say

"No Sephiroth I?d like more information please about customs declarations if moving to NI. Do you have any references?" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55600466

Sunny Uplands for me would be what was promised - hundred of millions for the NHS a week. Billions extra for businesses. All these new laws we can make which make our life better (such as.... ? There are none - airy fairy "flexibility" nonsense aside) and all without breaking up the United Kingdom or terrorism returning to Northern Ireland What has happened, and will remain in place is more expensive trade. More barriers, More red tape. Worse relations with the EU while pretending "we are friends" but trying to undercut and undermine them at every opportunity If you are happy to take 10 years of that shit that's up to you - but that is not what was promised and isn't what 17M voted for (some number of that 17M did - but not enough to win a referendum) Your promises of 10 years before "joy" are as baseless as MAGA - it's a house built on sand

"Revisionism in Action" Nope

I?m not taking about expectations I?m talking about what has been happening in the last 8 days. Not my fault if you don?t want to listen (Apocalyptic? I didn?t say that. I?m talking about real and serious problems with trade and businesses that aren?t going away. This is very far from the sunlit uplands promised. People like me said there were no sunny uplands and that it would be costly and cause barriers, strife and costs. The more apocalyptic versions were averted by skipping no deal. But it?s still all bad news and no good)

Cat. Nicely dodging the more serious impacts But the point about Northern Ireland isn?t about a form. It?s about breaking up an country or a union. If you are treating part of your union (ni) as a seperate country (which is what the form does) it?s another nail in the United Kingdom?s coffin. That?s no small thing. It?s why the British army, Ulster terrorist groups and the IRA were in conflict for so long with so many lives lost. To casually dismiss this as ?a form? and not see where it potentially leads to us irresponsible Keano - does that answer your question too? Why would you want to equate Northern Ireland (part of the U.K.) with eu countries like the Republic of Ireland Y?all are ignoring the warning signs.

I?d would say it?s looking very untenable. All you have to do is listen to major companies and hauliers. Oh and trade experts who have reviewed the deal and declared it unfit for 21st century m But we have a government of liars with a proven record of lying telling us it?s all fine. So who knows

I thought I remembered there being a thread for birthdays TheCat - sharing a birthday with Bowie and Presley

EDITED: Actually - to save derailing another thread further I've resurrected a birthday thread...

? We have left the EU and nothing has spontaneously combusted...... ? A rather privileged/ignorant take Fishing and haulage industries are very much combusting and being very vocal about it. Maybe you noticed. Or didnt care Northern Ireland is in all kinds of trouble as companies say they can?t handle logistics means if you as a family move from London to Belfast you now require customs declarations (to move within the United Kingdom) And most of those quoted are expecting things to get worse not better. It will require aligning with (once again) customs union and single market to fix and will probably happen

Given how chilled Cat normally is, and given how much water has passed under the bridge since before covid, a response like that can only mean he is genuinely worried about Brexit himself But to clarify and for context, any links to me saying you would kill people?

Oh I do keano. I do Not sure you do

"yes, okay then...there were 17m odd people who voted to leave...but you've provided examples of at least 3 individuals who at one time or another said something supportive of something Donald trump did" I mean - I named three, but there are a bajillion more. the whole cabinet are trump supportin', brexit tootin' maniacs for starters But my favourite bit, after watching 2 days of shrill trump supporters in and on the media say "you are calling him a fascist but 70 million people vote for him!!!", leavers repeating "17 million people voted for leave" is some kind of mike drop People complained about Trump getting elected but they didn't break into government buildings But they did point out he was a fascist - and got the same patronising horseshit that is given to people who point out Brexit is fermented in the same grime(s) But America always had an out - another general election. Just as UK will have other general elections But Brexit? That shit sticks

I liked this from Roland Smnith today as well. Like The Cat he was once a liberal, risk-taking Leaver. His words today Come on in Catty - the water is lovely, And you won't have to share it with keano "This is where I got to. In the end, Brexit is not very grown up. It also explains why Brexiter-free-traders hold a very "Ladybird book of free trade" view: Of the forester on the hill exchanging his wood for the wheat of the valley farmer. And of course "I, Pencil".... https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1347516120501280769/photo/1"