Sephiroth

it's amazing - you make a point about the EU being more prepared and into the detail in all of this (witness the UK shock at what is in the protocol) and keano boils it down to colouring in paragraphs with highlighter pens and blaming the other side

"For all the preparation, paragraphs coloured in with highlighter pens etc the EU is now jeopardising the peace process. " This is a really dumb statement amongst many dumb statements - Brexit meant this, and we told you. You wouldn't listen then and you won't now. EU hasn't forced UK to make any of the decisions it has - UK has done that in full knowledge of what it means. Own Your Shit FFS

That pic of David Davis (no paperwork) in front of EU counterparts (lot's of paperwork) and him boasting afterwords about how it shows how easy all of this is .... it's something one can't shake about everything since Not prepared to put the work in - either in prep, or in enacting what they agree. They should have been warning business over last couple of years to prep for this exact situation - instead we have video Johnson telling business that if anyone asks them for paperwork, give it to him and he will rip it up This is not normal or grown up behaviour

I'm not twisting anything "the situation the govt found themselves in was Xmas eve last year, sign this deal, or go with no deal." those were not the only choices - previous choices were jettisoned by Johnson and other tories (even got rid of a prime minister because of it, remember). Another choice would be aligning to SM & CU.. choices choices "what else do you expect them to do?...."Hey electorate....we signed a deal...but dont get excited, its a bit sh!t" " Again, this lot have been happy to do exactly that in the past - they just wouldn't allow anyone else to criticise it this time - because the prize was claiming "we got the brexit done" and everything else had to go under the bus for it. Honestly, I do expect government of a country to be honest with it's people on big decisions, and this govt is The Worst at that This govt is rubbish, Brexit remains a bad idea and the two things are inextricably linked. We wouldn't have this awful govt were it not for brexit. if it was concerned about a deal being awful for it's citizens, it wouldn't have pursued such an extreme brexit. Why does it bother me? Because they lied then, they lie now and many people buy it - at the expense of peace on these island, goodwill with other nations - brexit alone has imposed so much cost and inconvenience for other countries (amongst other things) It bothers me because it's shameful behaviour for any country to behave this way - especially one that has prided itself on honour and tradition

but it's all so depressing - here we all are again. After years of arguing to and fro of what is possibly going to happen , we are in the reality And despite people like us warning about NI for years, for pointing out the problems with leaving SM and CU means you have to have a border you just have to decide where you want it, and despite the UK govt choosing and crowing about it's protocol deal, selling it as a glorious victory to the electorate, despite the govt not allowing it's own MPs to debate the merits or lack of the protocol - despite all of the observable reality of the last 6 months... it still boils down to leavers saying it's the EU's fault the phrase "you couldn't make it up" is just inadequate these days No matter what the damage, they will blame everyone but themselves. And this will get worse, not better As I've mentioned before, some leavers like Roland Smith are publicly eloquent about realising when and why they made a mistake - but too many just enjoy this back and forth arguing and blaming others. They aren't personally affected, they get to enjoy themselves arguing with people on the internet - s'all a game innit

When parliament was trying to examine or kick the tyres of the protocol to see if it was fit for purpose, it wasn't the EU railroading it through the common s That was the UK govt who wouldn't allow any time. IDS guffawing about the whole thing had been talked to death. Chortling from the govt benches. Thunderous leaders from the Telegraph etc to get a move on This is all on the govt (and it's supporters) - blaming any other party, just won't do

that... still doesn't make any sense? I know you are trying to put words in my mouth but it isn't quite working There are mechanisms in place to allow less friction - we can use them without reneging on contracts/treatiesetc or showing we don't understand the first thing we signed (despite not allowing parliament to debate the thing we are complaining about) Not all solutions are the same. Stop comparing apples and oranges

it doesn't matter how often keano says it, the EU isn't acting in bad faith or threatening or blackmailing anyone here - what is wrong with basic comprehension? as for "Remainers: "You cant change anything about the NIP, its what was signed up to." Also Remainers: "We should change absolutely everything and rejoin the single market"" no-one I know is saying exactly either of those things - but to take the general thrust of your point, what's the problem? rejoining the single market isn't changing absolutely everything - UK will still have left the EU, various logistics problems will be solved, and is the sort of mutual recognition that trade deals usually consist of (unlike this mutant version where UK is loudly exclaiming it must be free of all ties but wants the benefits anyway)

"On a serious note. The protocol isn?t working. The problem appears to be the way the EU is interpreting and applying the rules. " The protocol is working exactly as designed and agreed, signed off by UK govt. None of what is happening is a surprise. It isn't down to interpretation. The problem is the portion of British public that thinks they can do what they like and not face any consequences. If you don't like this outcome, may I suggest you don't understand what you voted for And by consequence, I don't mean punishment. I mean consequence. UK chose hardest possible of Brexits for no godo reason - the consequence of that choice is not having alignment and not requiring checks There are many countries who can't get their goods (including sausage meat) into the UK because of UK rules. The UK has rules and it enforces them - to keep suggesting other countries should just give UK a free pass is weird

or at least re-aligns via SM & CU which is what is going to happen because it is the only solution which is in UK's OWN interests (and which was also promised by many Leavers) Only question is how much damage and time before then

You really are Johnson?s target audience aren?t you Happy to blame others Glib about serious issues

"So between us Alan we?ve come up with two possible solutions in the space of a few hours which thousands of EU bureaucrats seem unable to do." you really really haven't - coming up with solutions on a forum on a Friday morning isn't the same thing as implementing anything, not least against the wishes of many of the people you so glibly talk about "Lip service from the EU as we saw when Ursula threw a wobbly over the Brexit vaccine" the difference between Urusla's fuck up and the UK is that the UK proudly makes this threat on a weekly basis - whereas Ursula got told in no uncertain terms how she had messed up, by the very country you are talking about.

"The suggested minimum corporation tax could cause much damage to Ireland." why yes, yes it could - what does any of that have to do with the EU or Irexit? Nothing "The government is already preparing the people for big tax rises to recover from COVID." What, just the Irish govt having to deal with recovering from COVID? And again, what does that have to do with EU? "And once the save the planet greens really get going people won?t have two pennies to rub together. " - aaaaand once again.. what does that have to do with... well anything in this thread really? "There?s hard times ahead the the EU dominos are wobbling." There are indeed hard times ahead - for everyone - which is why mutual trust and working together will benefit countries in the EU instead of jackasses and troublemakers pretending they are still special. And the report you linked to earlier says just as much. "The EU is wobbling" has been the trope of choice for decades - you would think with UK having so much sovereignty and power and the EU in so much trouble there is NO WAY such a weak institution could have FORCED the UK to sign such a despicable treaty, eh?

So the uk answer to a problem of their own making is to instruct another country to do something it doesn?t want to do Own the mess you made and grow up

Any other countries rallying to support uk as the f@@k up so publicly? Nope. Uk is shitting the bed and everyone else can see it. European or not

?We should never have signed it? I seem to recall us remainers telling you this. But Johnson had his oven ready deal and everyone waved flags and wouldn?t examine the details and look where we are now What?s your better plan? Because you haven?t got one. There is no simple solution as long as uk insists on ideaology

I'll be honest - I've never heard of Nicholson. What's the skinny?

The report is rather more nuanced than that very excitable Times article has it and is completely beside the point re what is actually happening re: international treaties and brexit Criticising the EU, wanting it to do better, scoring it (relatively) badly is not the same as wanting to leave the EU

isn't Rod Liddle a less-than-reliable narrator on matters "racist"?

I see the telegraph are claiming today that the NI protocol was signed under duress and UK was bullied into signing it never mind that a) UK is meant to be a mighty sovereign equal now - how can it be bullied? b) it was hailed as a great deal at the time and sold as such to the electorate (not least by the very same writer) c) the same people objected to any other solutions before - if there is a better one now, what is it and why will it work now when it couldn't before? d) people like us remainers warned about all of this ages ago and were belittled - "how about taking time to examine this protocol" - no no no we have discussed this to death - it's marvellous, get behind it!

Nearly a week later and that last post (and the general volley of ill-tempered posts that day from author) still amazes me

He's talking about bringing them under UK control and not EU control BUT We Could Have Done That Anyway in The EU but just didn't

knowing the Dog, if you place your drinks order at 12:30 you might get them by 2

Driving through Kent a couple of years ago I stopped at a random village pub. That very same couple were running this pub. Was nice to see them again

Take that attitude into the driving test Foxy? Talk about false equivalence