Sephiroth

I swear it’s like having a chronic alcoholic gambler in the family. Some people in denial Some people think it’s not that bad Some people trying to stage an intervention only to be told “pointing fingers won’t help, mr I told you so. Uncle Dave has a different opinion. Situation is not that bad” Fine fine. Crack on

“ This thread seems to be very much I told you so, with Cat occasionally giving a very different view.” “Look at me being all objective” Nope. This country made a massive mistake which was not only widely forecast (only for those people to be abused from enemies of the people to project fear) but the problems are all still in play. Trying to both sides this isn’t going to fly To fix a problem, you have to acknowledge the problem. And this country isn’t even close to doing that. It’s still in a “well, we can move forward if” nondescript lame mode. Starmer is all over the media this weekend telling the Tories how they are getting Brexit wrong. Which does not bode well There are no simple paths forward now. Damage has been done. But damage will continue to be inflicted as long as people pretend they can make Brexit work Oh and news just in https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/26/brexit-britain-japan-trade-deal-exports-slump?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I know you jest. But as an answer… the Irish And the Scottish. And every other eu country And then you have other countries looking to join So only the English. Just them (and maybe their influence on wales) But only enough English people were dumb enough to do this extraordinarily dumb thing. And then, just to complete the dunces cap, they made sure that when they changed their minds they had no way back. Extraordinary

After close to 40 years living here I don't get this country and it's class thing Sure all countries have class systems to some degree but it just seems weirder here If you want to talk about the disparity in wealth, health and other outcomes then I think that is important stuff and should be discussed but if a "nice" coffee shop opens up in a neighbourhood full of them then there is no reason why "working class" people should not want to go there - it's conflating different things And if I go to Ireland, Spain, Portugal I see "working class" people happily mingling with other classes in places like.... "nice" coffee shops

Whatever else Brexit is, “the will of the people” doesn’t seem to be one of them 🔥 Oof!! HUGE poll from YouGov. 🔥 “In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?” Right to Leave: 32% Wrong to Leave: 56% Largest ever gap (+24)… and that gap has been opening wider & wider over this year.

a year later and where are we? [list=]UKIPY Brexiters who were in government at the time now denouncing the Australia deal UK still won't implement import controls evidences of "Brexit starting to deliver" nowhere to be seen now or anywhere in the future NI protocol rumbles on and we have had 3 different prime ministers. In less than a year! Stable. Strong and oh so Stable

Amazing the criticism these people can muster up when they are no longer involved https://news.sky.com/story/george-eustice-brands-australia-free-trade-deal-a-failure-in-brutal-swipe-at-liz-truss-12747723 Chasing cheap headlines at the expense of the country - who could have foreseen such a thing. And they all marched up the hill to tell us how good it was

As Ukraine continues to push back Russian forces (thanks in no small part to UK aid) they have started flying EU flags Someone needs to get them the Briefings for Brexit paper STAT Come to think of it, why haven't the other EU countries read that paper and thought, "hang on a second here guys... we've been fools to ourselves" oh yeah - because it's a crock of shite, built from the same fools gold as the whole Brexit project And everyone, everyone from Ukrainians to Europeans to most Brits can see it - but not a small, plucky band of podgy middle-age men with strange ideas about how people and markets work

Let’s put our wisdom to the test Rees mogg and his absurd bill to scrap thousands of eu laws Doable, liberating and a good idea ? Or a complete folly (at best)? Put me down for the latter

"even I was taken aback that one recent poll had Rejoin at close to 60%. That's Rejoin, i.e. completely undoing Brexit." What's especially notable about this is that this is happening despite there being no major political party leading this message (or even coming close to it) Despite waffle from Briefings from Britain, despite the UK press being pro-brexit, despite even Labour saying the won't even countenance single market - nearly 2/3ds of Britons say they would rejoin Almost like they can see the damage (be it small or big) for themselves But Cat will never ever be wrong on this - it will always be someone else's fault or failing.

"quote any data at all to prove the brexit disaster point...." 5 PMs in 6 years (and another on the way soon) isn't the sign of any country going well. It's deep into dysfunctional territory.

you don't have to listen to me or any other poster you don't like But you can keep posting garbage from Briefings for Britain and no-one is going to take it seriously because they are a fringe group of loons hiding behind their "reason". Again you don't have to listen to me - but almost no-one in their own field pays them the slightest bit of notice because they are so far gone. Economists are embarrassed by Minford https://www.facebook.com/TheEconomist/posts/if-patrick-minfords-economics-are-dubious-his-political-judgment-is-worse-it-is-/10155767039554060/ And if Brexiteers like Wolfson are complaining about Brexit - take your issues up with them instead of complaining about people like us - email him with a briefings for Britain paper and see how far it gets you. or him and for anyone reading who hasn't had a look at the briefings for Britain website - do go take a look - you be the judge of how reasonable and factual they are

there can't be a long term vision/plan for Uk if the country keeps changing prime ministers every few months so why does the UK keep changing prime minister every few months? Ineptitude, sure So why don't they choose a better one? because they got rid of all the smart ones? And why did they do that? Ah yes....

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/10/brexit-next-boss-foreign-workers-uk-lord-wolfson of course it's not the Brexit you wanted wolfie - because Brexit was never defined and everytime anyone tries to do anything brexity, loads of other brexity people go "that's not MY Brexit" So if Wolfson gets HIS Brexit, loads of anti-immigration leavers will scream about that Sack of rats

Let’s see how this one goes eh? Shockingly. Not well https://www.politico.eu/article/we-were-taken-for-fools-meps-fume-at-uk-data-protection-snub/

Kelvin Mackenzie (so a man with form) tweeted this in last hour "While it's clear the man who threw 3 petrol bombs at a migrant centre in Dover and then killed himself was deranged, the real story is of great tensions in the town among worried residents. Who can blame them? Another 990 illegals arrived yesterday. Rishi must stop the tide." I would say people like HIM are the disgusting people Cat, wouldn't you agree? "illegals". "tide". Absolute filthy language dog whistling to the sort of person who might kill and MP or bomb an immigration centre But you choose to call ME out? "stop the tide" - no allegorical stories about anyone trying to do THAT either

Let’s hope the local MP hasn’t been making any cheap shots Oh look. Here she was just this morning https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11368897/amp/NATALIE-ELPHICKE-Left-admit-no-refugee-crisis-simply-illegal-immigration.html

“Motivation is unknown” Sure. Suck your thumb, rock back and forth and tell yourself that over and over again I’d say a man who attacks an immigration centre has a pretty clear motivation. (Immigration centres that are in and of themselves disgusting creations, driven by we know what) I’m not scoring cheap points. What’s happened is clear

I’d say we could all guess which way this guy voted in 2016 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/30/dover-petrol-bomb-immigration-centre-border-force?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

In my job, if I didn’t immediately report my mistake to relevant dept I would be gone by end of day Asking people to ignore and delete just doesn’t cut it

Deleted it myself because it was dumb

Well labour can either pick up and deal with this mess now Or wait for another two years of damage and try and rectify things then I suspect they (and the country as a whole) would much much rather start that job now before things get even worse Some tories might enjoy sniggering at state of the country and laughing at owning lib tears at prospect of Johnson returning. But most sane people just want shot of this lot whilst fully aware of the challenges ahead

I don't believe there is a single permutation that allows this government to continue in anything remotely resembling an orderly fashion To take the Sunak/Johnson combo - as Cat says, it's unlikely to happen and if it did they still wouldn't have any answers to the problems - but for sake of argument let's imagine they swallow their egos and agree to proceed on this basis. Do they proceed with 2019 manifesto? In no universe is that on Sunak's mind. So where is the the mandate? That's a rhetorical question - there simply isn't one. And there is no combination of forces in current conservative party that will unite under any way forward Every week and month this party pretends it wields power and has any support from the country is time expensively wasted - of course no easy answers exist but if they at least call an election, whoever gets elected (even the tories) will have at least gone to the country after the farcical last 12 months and be operating on a mandate

Monday

As we are throwing around buzzwords, can I add “projection”?