Sephiroth

Server has crashed at approx 617k sigs (won't stop some conspiracists thinking it's something more nefarious than a server overload)

" They have been exceptionally difficult and obstinate. " citation needed! EU have played their cards straight, been transparent and behaved exactly as everyone said they would What is different is that the Leavers like Davis, Gove etc, all promised it would be easy and they would roll over. You do remember that don't you? So they didn't rollover and that makes them exceptionally difficult?

are you near the railway track side? The train cos sometimes use machines at that hour It's an ungodly sound and woke me in quite a panic when I first heard it

Can anyone else help me out then? Which bit of my post is Robbin referring to when they say ""Not a single one of those projections was made on that basis, as you well know. I chose the examples carefully. So your observation is invalid." If they mean the claims in their post such as: " Loss of 500,000 jobs straight after the vote over > 2 years ago. Utterly false. (ETA - see below unemployment figures out today) " I don't understand why my link addressing that exact point is being dismissed I might not be making my points well, or clearly. But I'm not trolling

well I asked for clarification on your point and didn't get it What point am I missing?

Me: "The broad thrust of negative forecasts from > remainers have largely come true - companies will > leave, you won't get better trade deals, irish > border, losing freedom of movement rights etc etc " Robbin: "Not a single one of those projections was made on that basis, as you well know. I chose the examples carefully. So your observation is invalid." companies leaving example https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/14/eu-referendum-poll-1-in-3-firms-leave-uk-brexit trade deals https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36074853 Irish Border https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35502736 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35692452 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/09/tony-blair-and-john-major-brexit-would-close-irish-border

Just for clarity, when you say ?on that basis? you mean Britain leaving the eu? You are saying those projections were not made on basis of Britain leaving eu?

People were talking about triggering A50 the day after the referendum. Some of the projections were specifically "after we leave the EU" https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-to-enter-recession-with-500000-uk-jobs-lost-if-it-left-eu-new-treasury-analysis-shows We haven't left yet, have we? The broad thrust of negative forecasts from remainers have largely come true - companies will leave, you won't get better trade deals, irish border, losing freedom of movement rights etc etc We are 2 weeks away from leaving with no deal - I would hold fire on any "everything is still great" type statements just now And this is all regardless of the reputational damage done to the country

I dunno Sue - he came close in 2015 and it was a surprise that that the population reversed their opinion at last minute Given what transpired between 2015 and 2017 I'd bet good money if Ed had stayed and steadied the ship, Labour would have won handsomely Then again, if I was leading the Labour party, I'd do a better job than the current imbecile

except that would never happen If Ed was leader of Labour, 2017 election would have been Labour's and May would be gone by now

Having done the move from se22 to Lewes (5 years ago) it?s a thumbs up from me The commute will depend on where in London you work (and your tolerance for the patchy train service)

The Phoenix is a Mitchell and butler pub (just like the Dog in DV) So of course it?s shit. It will always be shit with them in charge. At best they will find a bright young manager, who doesn?t know how m and b work. That manager might improve the pub briefly. But will do so at the cost of their physical and mental wellbeing This is the m and b way

Man on @Channel4News just now, voted Brexit, then bought a retirement home in Spain, didn?t realise he?d lose HIS freedom of movement, wishes he could vote again, Remain this time. - Do you think you might have shot yourself a bit in the foot. - A bit. Yeah. #jamoniberico

I read it - it was a vague reheating of "they need us more than them / German car manufacturers will save us" You still don't get it - the EU is not coming to save the UK. They recognize all the bluff and bluster. Businesses in Spain are not putting any meaningful pressure on their Govt to cut UK a deal

I'm not denying the data, but unlike Elliot or you, I don't think it's somehow beneficial to UK bargaining The data is the data - but part from not being pretty, what is your point with it?

Not sure we can call Larry Elliott an objective voice on Brexit matters - he's hardcore lexiter

I'm a compatriot of your Alan - we chatted upstairs at the Phoenix one forum drinks

I don?t need to clarify who I am/was do I? Anyone around long enough surely recognised me by now. Anyone else doesn?t care

Planets aligning eh Lou?

I suspect that even behind the coked-up, city-worker bravado from the likes of Robbin - they know. They know But can?t lose front can ya? Like a belligerent topless Brit in a Tallin town square singing ?no surrender? - they are all in on myth

This is not a negotiation in any normal sense. Usually people negotiate to come to a mutual understanding And agree on how much ?sovereignty? they will give up to get that deal What we have here is a single country trying to scam a new treaty. No amount of billy big bollix bullshit from ?remainers? (let?s not forget that) like Robbin will change that dynamic. And whatever band-aid is applies to prevent an actual catastrophe will leave no one better off. This is all some craziness for no gain. The rest of the world knows it.

I know - so here we are again back to the starting point - loads of credible people from businesses to economists who aren't Minford to govt impact reports etc etc vs some people who think it will be fine One of those groups will be wrong - and only one of those groups will be able to say "ah well" if they are wrong.If it's the other they will have destroyed a country for generations and risked peace (for not much reward if any)

More to the point again would you commit to a mortgage you couldn't afford by a long chalk and on a house where you hadn't checked the fabric of the building? Britain thought it could afford this, but it can't. It needs to back away before it's too late

"I would be prepared to accept the backstop if there was a short time limit on it" Then it isn't a backstop is it? Try getting a 25 year mortgage with a time limit on the obligation to pay back But inventing ever more elaborate wangles to try and squeeze smallest possible concessions is all so pointless - it's all risk and little reward

"We have 2.5 years of youngsters coming to voting age since June 2016 mainly supporting remain. This has already been proven to surpass the 2016 lead." I'm not sure how much faith we could put in that number alone - but again without another poll we can never know It's entirely Britain's fault that a second ref would essentially be a rerun of the first one - it never had any cards to play in the first place, has been outclassed every step of the way and was always going to be If it does go ahead with leaving, then it will continue to be outclassed in future trade deals with other large nations - but again, it simply can't admit it