Sephiroth

Oh I?m not blaming you or anyone for changing their minds. I welcome it But having changed your mind you should at least recognise how slim that majority was for such a major problematic change and the need for any progress to be on a robust foundation It isn?t my fault you can?t see how a second referendum can happen. Simple fact is other countries do it and have done it. - but you still argue that that is fundamentally wrong. I agree with you on Boris tho. I have long argued he is more likely to pivot than Corbyn.

Yeah but that?s the past. We have to take responsibility for what we do from here on in Because people will be looking for someone to blame. And the papers will be keen to help them. And Cameron won?t cut it (I?ll be blaming people like you btw. People who stood between any reasonable way of preventing this mess. Then. And now. Maybe that?s harsh. But then again maybe you?ll change your mind once more are realise the stakes are too high and we will have a revocation or a referendum where we can count all the other people who have changed their mind too. That would be nice. Then I wouldn?t have to blame anyone)

But it wasn?t the question I asked you Who will you blame if it all goes tits up?

Thanks for coming back. Given the likely candidates for Boris cabinet, and indeed the profile of people voting for him I can?t see that happening. Plus Farage and co won?t okay ball. And who in this scenario is accepting the Irish backstop exactly? All of this on a commons majority of what - 2? But boy does all of that seem like a lot of fuss and bother for a diminished position. If people are so keen to forget about Brexit I?d say revoke and carry on

You do know that support for staying in the eu in Greece and Italy is about 75% right? https://www.indy100.com/article/eu-membership-countries-vote-leave-remain-8888956

Now now. Just an easy illustration. It need not derail us. Out of interest - if predictions of food and medicine shortages in event of no deal come to pass, who will you blame? Or even if a deal is passed but Britain suffers somehow - I?m guessing it won?t be people like you who dismissed people like me? I?m guessing the eu, civil servants and bumbling politicians will be to blame?

?I'm afraid I had to have a little chuckle at that Louisa! I can only say that you must be quite easily shocked...? Don?t worry Jen. Faux-outrage at others whilst being constantly outraged herself (pizza!!!!! It?s just cheese in toast how very dare they!!!?? Is her entire raison d?etre

?population ravaged by austerity were more concerned with other matters, and used the referendum as a opportunity to whack him and his government with a big stick. ? Some people call this cutting off one?s nose to spite ones face Others shorten that to ?stupid? Most eu countries have had austerity. Only England (and wales) dumb enough to think this was an answer Plus the notion that it was the working class what voted leave is over-simplistic. At best.

That is meaningless rhetoric Louisa. You can?t use the phrase ?people?s will? unless you define it and people back it ?Leave the eu? is a many many headed beast with conflicting interpretations. There is no single ?leave?. And it?s plain wrong and dangerous to suggest otherwise

The only rigid position that is shocking is the English governments (wales voted leave but if they voted remain it wouldn?t have made any differences) To pass a treaty that needs unanimous approval is no small thing. If one nation says no a discussion needs to be had about why, what the problem is and what can be done. That happened. It?s democracy in action. Ireland had concerns and they were addressed Any future trade deals with the uk (who will be desperate for any deals) may well require unanimous approval of the eu 27. If one country vetoes a British deal, leaving Britain shafted, should we shrug and accept it. Or do we get back around a table? If you think the uk leaving wont be the end of the world, does that include no deal ? In which case what are you smoking? If it involves a deal, you realise it will be a deal that leaves us worse off and with no say? That might not be the end of the world but people will lose jobs. Why would you? And in any case you have failed to absorb how crazy the no deal wing are. No deal will pass their tests. You are giving up money and jobs and security to crazy people

If Ireland was ?told to vote again until they have the right answer? why would a 53% winning vote become a 32 % losing vote? How does that happen. How do that many people go ?well since you asked again? Between the two votes events changed. The Irish government renegotiated. That was something they could do because they were grown up as and didn?t give away all bargaining power by leaving the eu The stupid stupid English pride - this ?we will show them? is so so damaging If Lou was correct in her interpretation of Ireland you would think Ireland would be mad keen to leave the eu. But they aren?t are they?

Lou?s own words are beyond contempt and not worth responding to. ?I know as well as she does?. Please That she then quotes the lunatic that is Brendan o neil - a man wrong about everything - shows how she processes and absorbs information

?Just because I changed my mind doesn?t mean others did? Do you really believe that Louisa. Genuinely? https://www.remainernow.com/

? But hey, what do I know? I?m just a moron who voted for something I didn?t understand? What can I add? By your own words you are damned

? Ireland was forced to vote numerous times for something they didn?t really care about, in a referendum hoisted upon them by membership of the EU, and their democratic process. And despite rejecting it after being shown the facts, they were told to think again by their pro EU government, just because they didn?t want to allow democracy to take its course. ? Lou. By now you are clearly talking out of your arse about a country and situation you know nothing about - stop it. You could not be more wrong

? Many would also choose not to vote at all... after all, what's the point?? You have a better plan Kel? A narrow vote on an ill-defined promise with a ratification referendum 3 years later does not invalidate democracy or any previous vote But. Yknow. *shrugs*

It wasn?t a democratic referendum It was a narrow result The projections of damage were dismissed as project fear then but are accepted as ?what people voted for now? You won?t accept responsibility for the damage about to happen. I?ll patronise anyone dumb enough to ignore the facts and cause so much damage This isn?t a referendum about voting systems, divorce or anything else. It doesn?t matter what Cameron promised. He wasn?t in a position to write that cheque and the country can?t cash it. Just because you think you ?won? doesn?t make it any more possible

? 2) Leave and re-settle in another country if the thought of leaving the EU is so hard to accept.? We can do this now. But we won?t be able to do it precisely because of Brexit. Do you see????? Here is another option. Weigh up all the facts and realise it?s not worth it

This is how docile, meek and sloppy with your thinking being an English subject of a monarchy makes people ?I think brexit is a mistake. I voted for it but I changed my mind? Probably millions like you. You probably want a second referendum to be sure before making such a momentous change, breaking up the United Kingdom and threatening peace in Ireland as well as medicine shortages and poverty. Yknow. Like other grown up countries do? ?Christ no!!!?

You can not enact a decision If the decision is not defined. ?Leaving the eu? means many things to many people. Many of those definitions directly contradict others. It?s has nothing to do with the eu It?s simply this country being childish. They deserve to be patronised frankly If you want to leave the eu, define how you want to leave, them out that to a vote You can?t leave and then try and rejoin later. Not without painful concessions You have to say what kind of leave you want. You have to write it down and codify it - and you can?t. Because as soon as you do it loses support. And that?s nothing to do with the eu

And you think that?s a good reason to proceed?

That is some weak sauce Leaving the eu in the referendum was presented as painless and advantageous No one is pretending that now. The referendum was a bait and switch. It?s illegitimate. You have presented no facts. I suggested you define it because, as the last 3 years have shown ?leaving the eu? as something a majority would vote for is a mirage. As soon as anyone writes down what it means, support evaporates Do a referendum now with no deal as the option? Not a chance you would win.

Foxy doing a FINE job there. Proving just how smart these leave voters can be Foxy. Why do you think for 40+ years the uk has NOT managed its own finances? Why do you think most of the other eu countries don?t manage their own finances but want to stay in the eu? What is England (not uk. The uk did not vote to leave) going to do now that it couldn?t do before? You are a fool sir. Chasing fool?s gold. And taking us with you

Ah I see what you did there. You edited your post without acknowledging why. Classy Anyway. Back to basics. You quote some numbers. Please provide the source so we can appraise

Wow foxy ?2.6 billion per cent ? That?s a lot. Are you SURE?? Now. Even if we were to give your numbers credibility (which I don?t) what?s the difference between gross and net What does that money get us? Quite a lot I?d say I can complain about sky raising their prices AGAIN, but if I stop paying I don?t have access to their programmes any more (an imperfect analogy. I don?t need to sell sky anything in return) It?s just a shitty bluff. ?We spend money!!!? Yes you do. And you think there is a better answer? Define it. Define it AND get support for it