Tony.London Suburbs

Less views than the "dot" thread....lol

You are a Counter-Revolutionary Wolfie. You need a chopstick right up yer wee jaxie, any squeak of protest will be regarded as a roar of discontent by me.

Jeremy Wrote: We're discussing social and cultural issues, not whether one race is superior to another. Precisement Jeremy. Nobody is saying that one race is superior or inferior to any other but to not realise major cultural diffeences betwen certain races who inhabit Britain is rikkidoodalous, as the Late Hylda Baker used to say. Not to realise that different Ethnic Groups and Races CHOOSE to spend time and socialise, often exclusively, solely with other Members of that same Race or Ethnicity is ostrich-like to put it mildly.

I liked Mike and hope he returns one day but he must realise that these "spur-of-the-moment" gestures are futile. People just re-adjust and re-group and move on and the poster has just disappearred unnecessarrily. Shame in Mike's case i.m.o.

No because I will start by saying NTTT i.e. No Time To Talk and once people know our code they do not ring. What annoys me is the legion of Women I have known who flash or text me as they have no credit and want me to ring them straight back.... Woman did just that today and she is forever telling me how much money she has and she does not know what to do with it. Spend it on some credit and stop taking the pizzicato...;-)

Huguenot Wrote: However brutal the debate, I'm proud of our forum that we'll respect the rights of our members to express themselves. I appreciate my underperformance,;-) Absolutely Hugsy! I mean can you positively imagine the provocation of an alternative view that many people, born in England/Britain actually choose to preserve a "traditionally" English/British lifestyle in England/Britain!! How outrageous an idea is that, on an internet forum set deep in the heart of The Capital of England? Some people have shown commendable restraint when dealing with that whole concept! Bravo! I say!

Admin probably removed it and I, for one, don't really blame them. This is supposed to be a fun place.

Sherwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > note that 'Greater London' only came into being in 1965. Indeedy. It will e fascinating seeing that 1971 census as in the late 1960's there was hardly a School that had more than a handful of Non-Whites. My School had 4 out of 1,100 kids. ( Leo Solomons/Banda-Atila/Festus Fairwhether and Worrel Sterling) thats 1965-1971. I do not ever recall seeing any Non-White in any Primary School in South London, but there, presumably, must have been some Non-White Guys.

taper Wrote: And welling was the BNP's headquarters until recently. It was indeed. Why was that? They realised that many disaffected South Londoners moved out to Welling and its environs because they saw "their" South London changing before their very eyes so they thought that some people there would have an affinity with them. Luckily, they were moved on.

taper, I really am intrigued to see this 1971 London consensus that showed the "8%" you mentioned. Have you relocated yet, please?

gallinello Wrote: TLS, me ol' China! You truly are the one and only honest Communist on this site. Your descriptions of communities based on solidarity and mutual aid and co-operation bring a tear to the eye. tls:I'v been telling everyone who would only listen that I'm the only true Socialist on here, so its music to my ears that someone, finally, understands me and cares gally! I'm feeling moist writing this myself M8.... galli: But, unfortunately you and I both know that your next posting will contain some Maggie-loving, union-bashing/baiting, crypto-racist ( inspite of your relentless mentioning of the 'Black Jamaican Ladyfriend' and all your black friends!) torture-extolling rabid rant. tls: You've gone and spoilt it all now, My Son! sigh.. What I do NOT like gal ( I know you won't mind my Cockney familiarity) is piss-takers! You know the type NON-Diamond Geezers..like the lazy, good-for-nothing Workers that I saw having a permanent "Giraffe" when I worked in Fleet Street, but we know Maggie sorted them out. I'm sorry that I liked Maggie, as I know she backed Britain and put her first, so, naturally, that did upset Guys like you. It WAS a weird concept, admittedly, a Prime Minister who supported and loved Britain, but she was strange one was our blessed Margeret. Who was next on your list? Ah! "crypto" racists...not keen on 'em at all, indeed any kind of racist....now people who support Britain and adhere to traditional British customs and Culture, well I bally love 'em I do, I tells thee! Last we had "torture" mentioned. Well we are back to the piss=takers again aren't we? See I like nice, decent honourable people. Don't like Human filth or their supporters . Don't like Guys who ruin the lives of others, make neighbourhoods a dangerous place to live, are generally nasty pieces of work so I don't care what happens to them but would prefer, if you don't mind, awfully, if they were kept away from all the nice, lovely people that comprise the majority of Society of all Races and Creeds. So to summarise me gal me old fruit me no likey pisstakers, whether they are career criminals or lazy buggers protected by their Union. Not keen on Guys who racially discriminate either gal..yougetmebruv? galli: Still for the time being, let us all savour 'nice Tony's' sympathetic, sentimental trip down Memory Lane.... God Bless Ya Mate! Thats The Spirit Gazza me Son:)-D btw: I leave the rabid rants to others on here, you'll get to know them, in time My Boy...

taper Wrote: London's ethnic minority population according to the 1971 census was about 8%. So it looks like Tony made up his 99% figure, again. I will be fascinated to see that as in The 1960's during my youth it was so rare, in the heart of South London, no less, to see anyone other than a White person that people used to point out, ignorantly, Non-White people out in the street. That does NOT accord with Non-Whites being anywhere near 2% let alone 8%. One would travel ONE WEEK to another in South London and only see White faces.

taper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > London's ethnic minority population according to > the 1971 census was about 8%. So it looks like > Tony made up his 99% figure, again. Can you show me please taper? > > Oswald Moseley;s Blackshirts had their HQ in the > Walworth Road in the 1930s. Walworth Road was also the Home Of The Labour Party and had its National Headquarters there, until recently so whats the point? We have had a Far-Right Organisation based there and a Left-Wing Party based there and...?

ontheedge Wrote: Tony thought you were heading up to London you better get a move on befores it gets dark The Sun has not only gone down on The British Empire but it has disappearred, today, in The Suburbs. So if you think I'm going down to Greenwich and getting that riverboat now today you are mistaken.:) "Gets dark" you are a hoot! I'll show that comment to my Black Jamaican Ladyfriend who lives with me when she comes downstairs, we'll have a right laugh together....you are a card...(tu)

Jeremy Wrote: Personally I have never really felt such a strong association with a place that I would get so upset if it changed (and still stay there regardless). TLS:I'm different. All my Father's 7 Brothers and Sisters lived near each other in various parts of Peckham and that applied to many families back in THe 1950's/1960's. Also I lived on Council Estates when I grew up and we all knew each other and, generally, helped each other ( if a neighbour was ick, the other Women would always do their shopping etc). We were mostly in each other houses and shared a similar Cultural bond and had everything in common ( making allowances for individual tastes). So having been brought up in that World and see the great benefits that brings, I bemoan its loss. Jeremy:I think - with respect - that it's a slightly outdated concept, because people move around so much more these days. People move between the city, suburbs and countryside to suit their lifestyles. People move overseas for work or for > new experiences. The community spirit Tony remembers from his youth doesn't really exist anymore, populations are transient, and it's not just because of immigration. TLS: There's a great deal of truth in that and yet, on THursday, when I travel to East Grinstead, I still note a real Community Spirit there in the various local activities that people partake in, whether it be Bridge or Chess etc..

onvisa Wrote: Being old/living somewhere for a long time/not understanding another culture/being white is no excuse for racism. This conversation has centred around the change in one's Culture NOT "colour". There, is, of course, a correlation, but we are discussing a cultural change, as in parts of Leicester being totally Asian, now, for example. Thats what White Guys did in those parts of Leicester. THey moved. They may NOT have been "racist" but they, almost certainly, felt "strangers" in the neighbourhoods where Generations of their families previously lived with other people of their Culture. There is not one person who has entered this Debate who has suggested that anyone has any right to be "racially prejudiced" or "racist" in any way. No one here is making any excuses for "racist" behaviour, it does not belong anywhere in a civilised Society. If you are talking about anyone bemoaning the loss of their Culture in some UK Areas and seeing this phenomenon increase then thats totally different and I, for one, DO bemoan that onvisa.

Sherwick Wrote: What else is there to do other than move? TLS: O.K. but can you not see that a multitude of other White Working-Class people have also chosen to move since the 1970's onwards for similar reasons, as they saw their area rapidly changing and foresaw a time when it would change beyond recognition? ( as HAS happened in many Inner London Areas)... These were NOT the most affluent of people and have not all moved out because they suddenly discovered more "space" out of Town, though some have. 99% of the 7 Million Londoners were White in 1965 so where do you think they or their offspring have all moved to? and why? They are not all dead, you know... Or do you, genuinely, think the majority of them moved out, all independently of each other, because they realised that there was more space outside the Inner City?

Even in "affluent" areas "bob" there is, often, a Cultural divide. These people are usually decent and well educated and can, happily, get on well with everybody at work etc. But many still choose to live with areas who share the same Cultural background.

Shame he/she removed that most salient of points. Why did they remove it? What was the point?

Sherwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Someone who commits suicide obviously has > problems. IN any case, if she hated Southall so > much, why did she choose to live there year after > year? Why did she choose to live there year after year? Firstly we do NOT know it was by "choice" she may not have been able to have afforded to move. More importantly what do you suggest Sherwick she should have done if she did not like the way her area was becoming?

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > People don't commit suicide because their home > town has changed. Tony, I put it to you that this > person was mentally ill. Jeremy. I know of several elderly Women, personally, in The Isle Of Dogs, Walworth and The Elephantand Castle who, while not suicidal, are desperately sad that "their" areas have changed beyond recognition to the extent that even, food-wise,they feel they are no longer catered for. Its a sad ending to the last few years of their lives as these Ladies are in their Late 70's and beyond. They have seen their areas change from one decade to another and the proportion of people of their Culture brcomes less and less, which is undeniable in some areas. Jeremy:What is your proposed solution to counteract the decline of british culture, and ensure the preservation of communities? Communities WILL be preserved. They will often be new Communities full of people who choose to live amongst theor own people culturally. I see London becoming extremely polarised over the next 30/40 years with a few "trendy" White Middle-Class Areas remaining surrounded by areas whichcontain largely 2nd/3rd/4th/5th Generation immigrant Families. That must happen, I would say. Most Working-Class White families want to move away from Inner London for multi-farius reasons, not in every case connected with losing their Cultural identity in Inner London, though. However many will move for that reason. I see The Home Counties and Suburbs and The Country Areas being predominantly "White" and The Inner parts of our Cities not being so. Just like almost every USA City, in fact. British Culture will not, necessarrily decline, but will be different from area to area.

*Bob* Wrote: ..that can't possibly be simplified into one sentence to prove some sort of point, that person wasn't capable of dealing with exams. My point is that while this is an extreme example, many hundreds of thousands of other people have left London or feel isolated now in "parts" of London as they feel the Culture that they enjoyed throughout their life has been diluted and in some cases, virtually, disappearred altogether "bob"....

Jeremy Wrote: I really don't think it's true white British people and their culture have become almost extinct. Sure there are pockets which are largely inhabited by certain ethnic groups, but this "herding" is human nature. It is also inevitable that this occurs in the big cities such as London, Birmingham, Manchester where there are more employment opportunities. But I think Tony is overstating the issue - I mean are there any other white people on this forum who feel as though they are in a minority? I certainly don't. TLS: I'm saying that their are many, many parts of Inner London, in particular, that WERE "99%" White/British only 40 years ago that have changed so much that anyone with even the most basic idea of elementary mathematics can see that if the Percentage of White Schoolchildren has gone down to 21% in Inner London from 99% in just 40 years then that process MUST escalate rapidly. I'm sure we can ALL see that, if we want to. I travel round London a great deal and in most parts of West/North and East London the White/Brits are definitely no longer in the majority. Given that this process must continue then White/Brits WILL be the minority in "not many years to come" and then, as many of the remaining Whites will want to live amongst their own Culture, this process will acceleratestill further. It really is undeniable for anyone witnessig the difference in Inner London in 1959-1969-1979-1989-1999 until 2009. I can understand why some people may perhaps feel disillusioned about changes in their neighbourhood... I am not totally unsympathetic to Tony's point. But personally I feel that we have gained more than we have lost, through the spread of other cultures onto our shores. TLS:Fair enough. I never said that we haven't been enriched in many ways Jeremy. Jeremy:The whole WWII thing is a red herring, nobody was fighting to retain white british culture, it was to stop the spread of a totalitarian dictatorship> and ethnic cleansing. And I think it's a bit of a cheap shot to drag it into the debate. TLS: That is a very fair comment. p.s. Jeremy. You will HAVE to improve your debating technigue though M8. No ranting, no personal insults, no belittling you could start a trend M8....;-)

I FEEL SO ALONE...HER WORLD HAD DISAPPEARED......as someone said to me, on here, the other day, GEDDIT?:))

Sherwick Wrote: I completely disagree that most want to live in black, asian or mexican areas. I'd say that most want to live in rich areas, which happen to be mostly white. Unfortunately they cannot choose to live in the rich areas because, well, most aren't rich enough. Those that are rich enough move to the rich areas. > Do you disagree with this? So it's very little to do with culture (other than when people initially come into a country they initially mix with their own culture). You say it will take centuries to change - I say it will take decades - maybe as many as 9 decades but less than 1 century. I went to school in Brent, North West London and our school was very mixed at the time (70s and 80s) but people didn't stay in their own cultural "groups" then I can definitely tell you! TLS: I agree with the "rich" part. I totally disagree with the rest but am visiting my lovely culturally diverse London in a few minutes so will postpone my reply until then. Sherwick: May I ask you where you heard about this white girl who committed suicide? Sunday, 9 March 2008 THE INDEPENDENT... "My father worked in a greengrocers' shop for 35 years; my mother was a housewife before she committed suicide in 1987. They were both lifelong Labour voters. My mother hanged herself in the house she lived in all her life, in Southall, west London, a town that had changed beyond all recognition. It is today the least white place in the whole of Britain. She wrote in her suicide note: "I hate Southall, I feel so alone." In case anyone dare accuse her of any racism, she may have hated Southall, but my mother was incapable of hating people. She worked in the last years of her life as a dinner lady in an all-Asian school and was much loved. But she was lost. Her world had disappeared. CAPITAL LETTERS SHERWICK AND OTHERS so that this point FINALLY sinks in PLEASE read every word of the above. That PERFECTLY encapsulates what I have been saying....that was in 1987 when only a few areas haad dramaticallychanged, culturally... If you do NOT understand now, Dear Reader you either: 1/ Aren't capable 2/ Do NOT want to!! In every readers case they are all NOW capable of understanding so it, presumably, must be "2" as it does not fit in to their marvellously idealistic view