TheCat

I know I am against racism I know that I disapprove of CRT as an effective method to combat racism, I know that CRT is at the heart of the BLM organisation I believe that taking the knee is clearly linked to tacit support of BLM (in ADDITION...to being an antiracist gesture) Accordingly, while I wouldn't boo taking the knee myself. I do choose to express support for different anti-racists gestures/organisations/efforts.... I understand that most posters on here believe that the Knee is a totally unobjectionable gesture...and accept that as a valid perspective. Why is it so impossible for those same people to accept that my position perhaps has some validity also (even if they dont agree with it)? There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is more than one way to combat racism. I strongly object to dog-whistle posts above which intimate that anyone who doesn't follow the 'one true path' is actually just a racist. This shows astounding narrowmindedness, in my view. I donate money regularly to this organisation https://www.theequianoproject.com/ set-up and run by BAME people to discuss and combat racism in ways which don't adhere to CRT/BLM orthodoxy. But I dont like taking the knee, so 'really' im just a childish racist troll apparently.

also...out of interest....is anyone that disagrees with your view of the world a 'childish troll'? Or is that just what you say when you really don't have much of an argument other than to label a binary 'you're wrong' on what is a subjective and complex discussion?

You're welcome to your OPINION j.a. History also has a plenty of examples of people who are fundamentally dogmatic, and refused to consider alternative points of view or recommended paths of action, even with those who might share their ultimate goals. Those people aren't particularly well regarded. Just to be super-clear also - I've come on here, said Im disgusted and shocked with racist abuse. I've said it should be stamped out like a bug. I've said I support stricter measure on policing racists abuse. And all you can say is that 'Im wrong'..... talk about missing whats important.

Its pretty hard to argue the knee is not a gesture....when its not accompanied by any specific demands (unless you want to say its accompanied by the list of BLM's (the organisation) demands - which then would make my point about it being more than just a generic protest), just general 'awareness raising' apparently...and despite this 'gesture'...its clearly done f-all to help stop this appalling abuse. Why continue to bang ones head against a brick wall in pursuit of goals that even many people who dont like the knee are likely to agree with? Perhaps start a totally new gesture, without the baggage that comes with 'taking the knee'?? and which has its specific associated aims as (for example) forcing Social media companies to better police racist content....that might be something more people get behind... I can understand Ming's frustrations as he just sees the Knee as a simple anti-racist thing. But, again, he's missing the fact that many people dont see it that way.

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Anyone had any fresh thoughts over last couple of > days? > Yes, I do actually....:) Woke up yesterday morning to news of this racist abuse online to the 3 missed penalty takers, and was pretty disgusted and shocked, and gave me pause to consider that perhaps I was wrong in my view that most people in this country aren't racist. Was almost nearly going to post on this thread to that effect. However, as the day went on yesterday, what was very encouraging was the total blanket condemnation of these actions...whether that be by politicians, media, friends on social media, people at work etc etc. This of course in no way should diminish our disgust at the abhorrent abuse..and we should stamp that out like the bug that it is..but Im somewhat reassured that it is indeed a small minority of absolute bellends. Seperatley...I am still not in agreement of the conflation of being a 'racist' with disapproval of taking the knee. As i've said before, while many people might think its just a simple gesture against racism, I personally see it as more than that (discussed ad nauseum above). So i dont really agree with the cries of hypocrisy directed at priti patel for example.....I still think one can disapprove of taking he knee, and not be lumped in the same bucket as people sending monkey emoticons on social media and defacing the rashford mural... heartblock Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Kaepernick took the knee as a personal statement and this continues to be a personal statement. If its a personal statement...then surely other should be free to express their own personl views against racism in other ways. and not be told they are racist becuase they dont like 'the knee'

diable rouge Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm not a big fan of the song, but I do get why > it's popular and caught on. > I could understand people not liking it if it was > snarling, crowing, jingoistic etc, but it's the > Lightening Seeds FFS!... :) There was a card left on the doorstep at Dover this morning reading.... "Dear England - we unsuccessfully attempted delivery of your item to HOME. Your item has been left with a neighbour"

As foreigner, I'll agree that the 'it's coming home' thing is definitely irritating...

I believe its spelt 'Freedumb Day'....

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 5 years after Brexit, the Uk is going to have to > stop barking what it wants ("EQUIVALENCE") and > expecting others to comply > > it's been 5 years - you've had multiple elections > and leader changes that shouldn't have happened > > You've had plenty of time to sit down with the EU > and hammer out a deal - and you did. And the deal > is playing out exactly as agreed . You said you > would put processes around chilled meats (for > example) after a 6 month extension. You didn't. > You had chances to debate the protocol in > parliament - that whole point about taking back > control - that would have allowed things like > these problems to be discussed. But that couldn't > happen because it would show up the lie that was > "oven ready" > > Take some fekkin responsibility and stop a) > whining and b) threatening Seph...you continue to want to look backwards with all this. People from all sides seem to agree that the NI protocol is not working. Now whether that's because it was poorly designed or poorly understood is really a moot point now isnt it? So surely just banging on that it was a mistake to sign it it, and the UK should just blindly 'honour the contract' is not particularly pragmatic is it? Things change, mistakes are made. This isn't a wildly unusual situation - i.e. a contract is not working in the way one or both parties had hoped - If every contract worked in practice in exactly the way that it was intended at the time of signing then we wouldn't need courts or lawyers, or an entire legal infrastructure really. And more specifically, there is the Article 16, which was clearly included in anticipation that it might not work for the relevant parties....which is what seems to have transpired. There are of course other options, and possible alternatives, that will require compromise on both sides of course....but the emotive nature of this debate sees plenty of shouting about how there is no alternative....I dont really buy that....

keano77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well why did the EU sign it? Maybe they didnt read it properly keano.

BrandNewGuy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As I mentioned before, stick with the ONS for the > most reliable UK data. And for what it's worth, > their figures suggest that the Delta variant is > significantly milder than previous variants. > This article strikes me as a fair assessment of > the current arguments concerning the easing of > restrictions: > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942 > "... What is more, those ending up in hospital > seem to be less sick, and need less intensive > treatment. > The risk of death, as a result, has reduced even > further. In January about one in 60 cases resulted > in someone dying. Today it's fewer than one in > 1,000." Thanks for the link. There seem to be rather a lot of people stirring themselves up into a right state about the unwinding of restrictions. Not least of all on this thread. There's a lot of distrust for Boris here, but lets remember that this move is backed by people like Chris Witty, and a bunch of other experts (see the link BNG posted), so it hasnt just been a date dreamt-up by a bunch of populists/charlatans/liars/insert you preferred abuse here..... There's got to be an acceptable level of risk somewhere, doesn't there? Where do we draw the line? Im afraid that even once 100% of the population is fully vaccinated, some people will still die of Covid......no vaccine is 100% effective. But the overall number of deaths at that point will be a fraction of what it would be for an unvaccinated population. Maybe 19th June isnt the right time, I dont know....im not sitting analysing all the numbers....but it has to be sometime...and at that point people will still die of the disease...and we may all say it was 'avoidable' if we were all cooped up at home in plastic bubbles watching netflix....

I believe that being too sexy for your mask is indeed one of the permitted exemptions

It's a purely populist decision, so no room for doing what's safest for the people. He?s bored of the whole situation. He wants some new ?news? to crow about. He lives in a privileged bubble-and doesn't give a damn about the man in the street.... oh...hang on...'he' is Prof Chris Wittty..... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/chris-whitty-keeping-covid-restrictions-will-only-delay-wave

garden grows well thanks;)

Im really hoping that the pro-masker versus anti-masker debate becomes the dividing lines of the next few years...replacing leavers versus remainers.....which is getting rather dull...... let me know what the majority of you want to support and i'll support the opposite, prely to keep it interesting.....:)

Seabag Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > TheCat Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I get the specific problems with 'football > > holliganism/'Brits abroad' etc > etc.....but...man, > > as a foreigner I find it quite sad that so many > of > > you have such a sh!tty view of your own country > > (and countrymen)..... > > > > Not making a judgement call on whether its > right > > or wrong. Just saying its quite striking, and a > > shame. > > > > Perhaps the concept of english exceptionalism > goes > > both ways..i.e. half the population thinks > you're > > exceptionally superior...while the other half > > thinks you're exceptionally inferior....neither > > are probably right.... > > It?s not a shame, it?s easy to love the country (I > do) but not much of the culture. > > And bear in mind, back in the day ?we? sent your > relatives to Australia as a punishment, that?s how > nice we are. No one sent my relatives anywhere. They moved to Australia in the 1950's....a few years after the convicts..... But regardless.....at least you all should have reason to unite together after the result just now.....

Just read a second opinion feature in the Graun over the past week or so arguing that care workers in old people's homes shouldn't be forced to have the jabs....as they might leave if forced to, and there's already a shortage of care home workers. I totally agree. Why should they be forced to have a jab just to keep their jobs caring for other people's wellbeing?? While we're at it.....I've a few more suggestions... We should allow people on building site and heavy engineering settings to not wear any of their required PPE, if they would prefer not to. Becuase some of them may leave if they need to adhere to Health and Safety requirements; and we dont want a shortage of house building do we!? We should allow alcoholic pilots and bus drivers to continue working as they might leave if asked to quit turning up for work drunk We should definitely allow convicted child abusers to work with children, as there's a shortage of teachers apparently.... Anyway...you see where im going with this....I've never heard such a ludicrous non-argument to just forget about safeguarding/health and safety in employment.....

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > TheCat Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Perhaps the concept of english exceptionalism > goes > > both ways..i.e. half the population thinks > you're > > exceptionally superior...while the other half > > thinks you're exceptionally inferior....neither > > are probably right.... > > Yeah well.. I think we probably all know which > half thinks we're special! And it's slightly over > half... 52% to be precise. Hmmmmmm...i'll let that one go through to the keeper I think.....:) > > Patriotism is a funny thing... I think there are > too many things I dislike in our culture and > history to feel truly patriotic, but even more > pertinently, it's also a slippery slope to > something a bit more sinister. That isn't to say > that the Brits DO have plenty to feel proud of. Sure...and the idea of self-deprecation/ability to laugh at one-self as (mentioned above by Rah) is indeed a virtue of the British in my mind (certainly versus the stereotypical US patriotism...."USA, Number 1!"). But more recently the self-deprecation in a lot of public discussion I think appears to be more veering into self-loathing....its subjective, but just my take. > > You're an Aussie, aren't you? I always found the > Australian sense of patriotism quite odd. Rewind > 20 years ago and it seemed as though every young > Australian living in London (and there were a > LOT!) would basically never shut up about how > awesome it is back home. Purely anecdotal of > course, but I often found this overt boastfulness > quite jarring. Not that they were necessarily > wrong. I could wax lyrical about this for quite some time. By virtue of the fact that Australia is geographically isolated, (and lets be honest is a pretty decent place to live) - Australians that have never left Australia are the worst:) ("Straya?...best plaaace in the woooooooooorld mate!...why would I ever want to go anywhere else?!!!")....closely followed by those young aussies who are 'just off the boat' when arriving in places like the UK (as you refer to)...who can be rather cringewrothy indeed in broadcasting how something is so much better 'back home'. So I dont disagree with your characterisation of those young aussies living in London (I, no doubt, used to be one!). But as I say...I think for most aussies who agree with me on views on our fellow countrymen, its stops at 'cringeworthy' and 'slightly annoying'; as compared to the more visceral English/Britsh bashing which I see more of these days as referenced above in my first post....

I get the specific problems with 'football holliganism/'Brits abroad' etc etc.....but...man, as a foreigner I find it quite sad that so many of you have such a sh!tty view of your own country (and countrymen)..... Not making a judgement call on whether its right or wrong. Just saying its quite striking, and a shame. Perhaps the concept of english exceptionalism goes both ways..i.e. half the population thinks you're exceptionally superior...while the other half thinks you're exceptionally inferior....neither are probably right....

Seems like a lot of manufactured outrage here. Objection to Ferguson going across town a year ago, is different to 'clinches' in the stairwell....and even if it isn't....apart from his wife and her husband, and their kids...who give a f?ck.....I've said this about cheating politicians of all colours.....it's an amusing situation (I use that loosely)...but does it really impact their job......? He was doing a sh-t job anyway...did this really make a difference?

fishbiscuits Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I won't use the same terminology as you, EDGuy, as > others claim they find "cis" offensive. (And I'm > not in total agreement with you on the sporting > side). But your closing point is on the money. We > can be an ally to both women and transgender > people. In fact, we SHOULD! Just to be clear....I know I was openly winding up earlier....but I don't find 'cis' offensive. I find it a little annoying, but not enough to have a real problem. I see why misgendering is upsetting for some transspeople....but perhaps being aware that a transition is not something a lot of people have direct exposure too, we shouldn't be so quite to dismissive people who do things like 'deadname'....... I know a few trans people. And the ones I know are reasonable, and get that it's a tough thing for others to take...so try not to be too reactionary. Seems a bit different to the trans activist mindset, which has no flexibility. As a analogous example......I have a son with ADHD and ASD, but the amount of jokes or misunderstanding about autism is constant from a wide range of people. I don't think those people are 'hateful'......it's annoying, but do I really think they are trying to be offensive or hateful?....no way.....

It's funny how we are all allowed to choose our own labels, which everyone else must use, in order to be respectful. But have most men and women agreed to be labelled as 'cisgender'? Perhaps they prefer 'man' or 'woman' to this fabricated terminology.... Apols...im being intentionally antagonistic with that...but more to highlight the total minefield of hypersensitivity there is to immediately brand something disagreeable as 'hate'.... I'll leave it now. I've made my point!

i've got two kids a at a local primary and this is the first i've heard of this song at all. Having now done 3 mins of googling....I'll concede its a bit naf, and invites jokes about USSR or North Korea....but if they come home and tell me they've sung it, im not going to get my knickers in a twist over it...its Friday afterall:) As an aside.....perhaps former soviet style music isnt that bad.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNacQaHJqEs

Its amazing how quick some people are to brand what in years gone by would have been labelled as 'a bit off' or disagreeable .......as 'hate'.... why does everything need to be so extreme? i.e. we dont seem to have 'sexism' anymore, we have 'misogyny'.......really? is he builder who wolf-wistles from the roof guilty of a hatred towards all women?.....might sound trivial.....but as progressives keep telling everyone...words matter...

JohnL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Paralympics has a multitude of divisions - maybe > that's where we are headed for main Olympics - > either way there should be a solution. > > But then I don't have much interest in Olympic > Sport or individual sport in general - Lance > Armstong spoilt it for me a little. so you're saying that someone who transitions is disabled? so should go to the Paralympics? categoty pink1C