Blah Blah

Not true at all Hjohn as has been pointed out numerous times. Covid19 has killed more people globally in six months than Influenza kills annually.

Indeed Lemming. Methinks any effort to educate PJ Cleaning about the nuances of racism would fall on deaf ears. We too have a vax ;)

Plagues that spread freely in the past, went away because they ran out of people to infect and kill. But that was when the earth's population was half the size it is now, and billions of us did not live in megacities, consuming all kinds of animals. What has changed, is our ability to develop vaccines. That is what has stopped waves of measles, tb, polio etc. We even now have a vaccine for Ebola. Global pandemics will continue to happen and we have to get much better at working with nations to eradicate risky farming and food production.

I think it is clear what the PJ Cleaning person was referring to in his/ her description of the party smells. No-one is fooled by that. Not a business I would ever want to employ as a result.

And that is a very good point Seenbeen. People do not understand that masks trap the saliva we exhale. Why does that help? Because saliva particles can hold hundreds of viral particles, and viral load can affect how ill a person gets. This is why front line nurses and doctors are particularly susceptible. This has been understood for a hundred years at least. But it is also true to say, that it is the natural reaction of a person to fiddle with their mask, so there has to be a certain level of retraining ourselves to do this in ways that are effective. There is also one study that now suggests that wearing masks helps immunity too. Placing a barrier between airborne particles works. That is all a mask is, and that is the message that needs to be hammered home.

Now you are conflating different issues. Numbers absolutely do matter when it comes to public health policy. You are splitting hairs on unknowns, in order to ignore the real challenge of this global pandemic, which is not over by a long way yet. On PCR tests, I would agree that they are not accurate enough. Antigen blood tests are far more accurate. I completely dismiss your claim that fear has been manufactured and misused but can no longer be bothered to explain the science, figures and evidence to you again. The cognitive dissonance is found in the rabbit hole you inhabit.

Are you seriously arguing that we should potentially allow millions to die so that we can avoid 100,000 deaths from other things? As for figures, the data is already there. Between 3 and 10 percent of confirmed cases end in death. That has been adapted for unknowns, like true rates of infection, down to 0.3 percent. That is still 30 times the mortality percentage of global flu deaths. So obfuscate all you like, the fact remains that we would be talking of millions of deaths, 30x the base level of flu, if the virus were allowed to spread freely. The data for that is already there, which is why governments are not messing about with this thing.

The test and trace system is going to implode if we don't ramp up laboratory capacity to process the tests. Government were warned about this months ago. They built extra hospital capacity (the Nightingale) but did little to build extra laboratory capacity at the same time.

rahrahrah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's good to hear that a special exemption is > being granted to people hunting with guns. They > can meet in groups up to 30. 😒 Yes, this was trending across social media yesterday. It typifies the elitist thinking of Boris and his ilk. One rule for them and another for the rest of us.

And there you go again TE44, failing to answer the question. How many deaths is too many? Clearly nearly 1 million in just six months is not enough for you, so I am genuinely curious as to what point you understand the benchmark of a global pandemic to be. That you won't answer it tells me that deep down, you know there is no good answer to that question that can save your incoherent non evidence based arguments. So you run out into the sunshine, but not before you try to have the last word again. I will keep asking you until you answer it, how many deaths above the million already counted, is too many? We can then compare notes in December, when the northern hemisphere is in the middle of cold and flu season.

Answer the question. How many deaths is too many? Clearly nearly 1 million is not enough for you. That speaks for itself and is why no-one is listening to you.

And to be clear TE44, globally, we are close to 1 million deaths. How high do you think that figure would be without governments around the world taking measures to slow and stop spread? Are you really so unable to see the reasoning behind the measures? Covid is blowing everything else out of the water right now. That is what a global pandemic does.

Stop deflecting TE44. How many deaths from covid have to happen before they are too many? Answer that. You do realise that they have already exceeded the annual flu death toll right, in just six months with lockdown measures in place? So answer the question and let's see how many people you want to die.

And that is why you wait for the facts to be evidenced TE44. You don't just make stuff up because you want it to be true. The figures show a drop in quarterly suicide rates. That is the fact I have referenced. What that means in reality takes longer to establish. I have said that very clearly. You are just not reading my posts properly, and still you ignore the question I keep asking you. How many global deaths from covid would be acceptable to you? You can deflect all you like, but until you answer that, I will keep asking.

You almost make it sound as though those billions are in return for nothing! The Single Market is the ONLY tariff free market for ALL goods and services in the world. Do you really think there is no regulatory alignment required for other trade deals? ALL trade arrangements are a matter of give and take. That is something Farage et al never really explained to leave voters.

Trains and buses will be the perfect space for transmitting Covid when the cold and flu season hits. Something will have to done to enforce compliance in my opinion.

TE44 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Are you reading the Neil Fergusons papers afrom > Imperial College Blah Blah. Are you prepared to > put peoples mental health at risk, peoples > livelyhood, make peoples last days on this planet > hell. 650,000 deaths a year worldwide > From flu, increase yearly despite vaccines. "Those > expert studies are the reason people get care you > need", open your eyes, have you got any older > family in care homes. Your so concerned about > debunking people who have different experiences, > views, you cant see past your own importance, oops > sorry i mean the experts you follow. What a > perfect world we would have with all these experts > that are never wrong, that is if its the experts > you are reading. Nope, I am not letting you get away with this nonsense. I just gave you a clue, in that my job requires a certain level of medical education and continuous reading of new peer reviewed research. You are out of your depth. I just gave you EVIDENCE that suicide rates were down, by a sizeable margin in the first three months of lockdown. You are making assumptions when you should be waiting for the facts. The figures for the second three months seem to be heading the same way. Anecdotal local experience is not representative of anything. That is why I dismiss it. You have to look at the facts overall. And from there, local anomalies can be investigated. You have presented no evidence of anything. Just a load of easily debunked nonsense from cranks that share your conspiracist world view. Yes there are indeed half a million flu deaths globally every year on average. 80 percent of them though are people who did not have the vaccine. But you are offering this against potentially 40 million dying from Covid. So you still are making irrelevant comparisons. I ask you again, how many people dying from Covid is too many? I keep asking you the question. You keep refusing to answer it.

I just saw it. Boris looked like the kid trying to avoid answering a question from the teacher at the back of the class. Slumped in his chair, trying to look as small as possible. The body language said it all.

I think you'll find TE44 that there are different protocols at the moment that are the discretion of a hospital and their staff. Before anyone can go near a highly infectious patient, they have to be put into full protection PPE, and it is not always practical to do that for non essential medical staff let alone relatives. You just have no idea what you are talking about. The 40 million comes from the 0.3 percent death rate that increasing data suggests. But you are deflecting. Are you happy to risk 40 million people dying? Just answer the question. As for expert studies, my job depends on reading them frequently. It is one of the reasons I am able to debunk every nonsensical rabbit hole some people fall down so easily. Those expert studies (that you dismiss so out of hand) are also the reason why people get the care they need. Heaven help us if were left to you and the cranks you like to cite.

Some valid points there J.a. Sunak might not be a bad alternative in the end. And Sunak vs Starmer might make it feel as though the adults are back in the room, even if the mess they have to deal with might be beyond even them.

It is indeed the longish incubation period that is the problem. And that is the idea behind track and trace, to mitigate that when someone presents with symptoms. But that track and trace system has to be comprehensive to work. You can't be half hearted about it, and everyone has to comply. At present, about a quarter of people don't or won't.

You might be right. He certainly doesn't look well these days.

There are already rumours that Boris will be gone within a year. That suggests that discontent behind the scenes is growing. Cummings was never liked by a lot of Tories MPs in the first place. Essentially, the party is in the hands of a cabal at the moment, that has to deliver on its promises, or it is out.

The real horror for May was in losing that majority in that snap election she called. It was all downhill from there.

And as I pointed out to you, suicide rates actually went DOWN in the first three months of the lockdown period. Why are you always questioning the facts, even when the evidence is presented to you? There is no evidence as yet that suicides rates are going up in this quarter either. So just stop it please. I ask you again, how many people are you prepared to let die globally from a pandemic? 40 million not enough for you obviously? That people already die from other things is irrelevant. You are arguing that we add another 40 million to that! There is a very good reason why family were not allowed to sit next to a highly infectious relatives, in hospitals filling up with dying and serious ill patients, being cared for by overworked and stressed out doctors and nurses, more than a 100 of whom died themselves, having caught this thing at that front line. You have no idea what you are talking about and help no-one TE44.